ChatterBank5 mins ago
please help - gbh charge
My brother in law was being harrased by neighbour. One night 2am, neighbour was drunk ,knocked on the door and ran away. After 3rd time brother in law, not knowing who was doing it, opened door without wearing glasses, grabbed nearest thing (copper pipe- was having plumbing done and going to tip next day). Hit neighbour, breaking his arm. Sister was witness and pulled them apart, brother in law ran off. Sister called ambulance, neighbour called police. Brother in law now been charged with gbh. it is his first offence. What sort of sentence is he looking at. They are both so scared, please help......
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Firstly, your brother-in-law might want to get his solicitor (and/or barrister) to speak to the Crown Prosecution Service to see if they'll reduce the charge from 'GBH' to 'ABH'. See paragraphs 46 and 55 here to see the different levels of injuries required for each charge:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_ag ainst_the_person/#P189_14382
(The circumstances you describe seem to indicate that the decision is a borderline one).
Assuming that the charge remains as 'GBH', you've not indicated whether it's under 'Section 20' (GBH) or 'Section 18' (GBH with intent). 'Deliberate selection of a weapon' (i.e. the copper pipe) can add 'with intent' to a GBH charge. (See paragraph 65 in that link).
This document shows the sentences applicable to first time offenders convicted after a trial. (A reduction of one third is applicable for an early guilty plea):
http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/a ssault-against-the%20person.pdf
For 'GBH', see the table on page 15
For 'GBH with intent', see the table on page 13.
For 'ABH', see the table on page 17.
If the charge can be reduced to 'ABH' the chances are that your brother-in-law will almost certainly receive a non-custodial sentence.
However if the charge remains as 'GBH' (without intent) your brother-in-law's solicitor/barrister will have to battle hard to keep him out of prison. (Judges are obliged to follow the guidelines in those tables unless there are genuinely exceptional circumstances, which the judge must explain in open court). A sentence of around 12 months would be most likely.
If the 'selection of a weapon' sees a 'Section 18' charge being use
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_ag ainst_the_person/#P189_14382
(The circumstances you describe seem to indicate that the decision is a borderline one).
Assuming that the charge remains as 'GBH', you've not indicated whether it's under 'Section 20' (GBH) or 'Section 18' (GBH with intent). 'Deliberate selection of a weapon' (i.e. the copper pipe) can add 'with intent' to a GBH charge. (See paragraph 65 in that link).
This document shows the sentences applicable to first time offenders convicted after a trial. (A reduction of one third is applicable for an early guilty plea):
http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/a ssault-against-the%20person.pdf
For 'GBH', see the table on page 15
For 'GBH with intent', see the table on page 13.
For 'ABH', see the table on page 17.
If the charge can be reduced to 'ABH' the chances are that your brother-in-law will almost certainly receive a non-custodial sentence.
However if the charge remains as 'GBH' (without intent) your brother-in-law's solicitor/barrister will have to battle hard to keep him out of prison. (Judges are obliged to follow the guidelines in those tables unless there are genuinely exceptional circumstances, which the judge must explain in open court). A sentence of around 12 months would be most likely.
If the 'selection of a weapon' sees a 'Section 18' charge being use
Whatever the charge, I would hope that the court would regard behaviour where one opens the door and hits the person there without even knowing who they are, as totally unacceptable.
What if the person at the door the third time was not the same person as before?
As to provacation. Can that be a defence? Surely it is only a possible mitigation.
What if the person at the door the third time was not the same person as before?
As to provacation. Can that be a defence? Surely it is only a possible mitigation.
Hi wickfen:
Sounds horrendous. Buenchico has given you a really comprehensive answer.
The only other observation I have to your post is that, and please don't quote me, but there's a distinct possibility that come the trial, there could well be some plea bargaining done between your b-i-l's legal reps and the prosecution which could end up with the lesser charge of ABH being preferred.
If so, it would mean him pleading guilty to that as opposed to not guilty to the S20 GBH. They both carry the same maximum sentence (5 years) in Crown Court or 6 months/fine in Magistrates.
The reason I mention this is the fact that, no matter what mitigating circumstances are put forward, your b-i-l did break this guy's arm. And the reality is that should he plead guilty, as opposed to running the risk of being found guilty, it will be acknowledged by the Court and it's not unusual to a more lenient punishment to be handed down.
Clearly he'll need some sound legal advice but as it's also his first offence, that is something else to be noted by the Court.
Hope I haven't confused the issue.
Sounds horrendous. Buenchico has given you a really comprehensive answer.
The only other observation I have to your post is that, and please don't quote me, but there's a distinct possibility that come the trial, there could well be some plea bargaining done between your b-i-l's legal reps and the prosecution which could end up with the lesser charge of ABH being preferred.
If so, it would mean him pleading guilty to that as opposed to not guilty to the S20 GBH. They both carry the same maximum sentence (5 years) in Crown Court or 6 months/fine in Magistrates.
The reason I mention this is the fact that, no matter what mitigating circumstances are put forward, your b-i-l did break this guy's arm. And the reality is that should he plead guilty, as opposed to running the risk of being found guilty, it will be acknowledged by the Court and it's not unusual to a more lenient punishment to be handed down.
Clearly he'll need some sound legal advice but as it's also his first offence, that is something else to be noted by the Court.
Hope I haven't confused the issue.
been to court today. There was indeed some plea bargaining and b-i-l decided to plead guilty to GBH (not ABH as there was a weopan involved) The judge said there would be a maximum sentence of 12 months depending on assessment from the probation service. He is to be sentenced in 2 months as the judge wanted to sentence himself and he was going away on holiday.b -i-l is also going on holiday in Aug and let him go so I guess that's a good thing??
Hi again, wickfen:
Sounds like the judge has taken the following into account:
First offence / lack of intent / b-i-l's previous good character.
To be honest, I'd say that it's hardly any more serious being convicted of the S.20 GBH and the ABH, given that both carry similar sentence likelihoods.
Subject to the probation service giving your b-i-l a good write up, I can see him perhaps receiving a six month sentence. Whether or not it would be suspended, only the judge could decide. There do not appear to be sentencing guidlines for this offence.
Sounds like the judge has taken the following into account:
First offence / lack of intent / b-i-l's previous good character.
To be honest, I'd say that it's hardly any more serious being convicted of the S.20 GBH and the ABH, given that both carry similar sentence likelihoods.
Subject to the probation service giving your b-i-l a good write up, I can see him perhaps receiving a six month sentence. Whether or not it would be suspended, only the judge could decide. There do not appear to be sentencing guidlines for this offence.
Thank you Parrafin for all your helpful advice and suggestions. It is in the hands of the judge now. It is just one of those unfortunate situations that anyone of us could find ourselves in. Lets hope the justice system is kind. They have decided to move out of their home, which is really sad but they can't take the risk of the neighbour starting at them again.
Hi Wickfen
Your brother in law will probably get a pat on the back for only breaking the guys arm. Even though it is wrong and against the law for the pipe incident to have taken place it will probably have been the only way of getting some kind of justice. The cops would have done nothing to help and the cps would have only impeded them. At least the ****** next door knows not to come a knocking any more. Next time think before you act and work backwards. Best of luck on the sentence and feel no guilt for giving the neighbour a belting. You did all your other neighbours and society in general a favour.
Your brother in law will probably get a pat on the back for only breaking the guys arm. Even though it is wrong and against the law for the pipe incident to have taken place it will probably have been the only way of getting some kind of justice. The cops would have done nothing to help and the cps would have only impeded them. At least the ****** next door knows not to come a knocking any more. Next time think before you act and work backwards. Best of luck on the sentence and feel no guilt for giving the neighbour a belting. You did all your other neighbours and society in general a favour.
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