Can He Sue?

[RosieCornwall]

I hope someone here will be able to help me.

Basically, when my DS lived at home, he was terrible at managing his finances, due to what I know now to be his drug habit. When he was working, he paid his wages into my account and I paid everything for him, food, clothes, DVD's, his birthday party, driving licence, driving lessons, toiletries, travel fares, driving test (theory and 2 x practical tests) etc etc.

However, he now has many thousands of pounds worth of debt and is saying that I was only "looking after" his money and had agreed to pay it back! He wrote to me saying that if I don't pay him £8000 within 2 weeks, he will take me court and also tell my employer untruths about me so that I get the sack. Since I refused to have anything to do with him until he stops with the drug and alcohol abuse, he has made my life misery, going around telling people I stole his money from him and forced him to work and give me the money. Unfortunately, a lot of the money I gave him was in cash, except for things like groceries, clothes etc which I bought when out with him shopping.

How can I prove that I spent the money on him and can he really sue me for this money back? He says in this letter that this was always a verbal agreement between us, but it never was. I spent that money on him, he benefited from it all and I worked out that over the 22 months he was working, I paid out all the money on him bar £85.87p.

I have worked out the following figures:

£300 per month room and board
£50 per month mobile phone
£30 per month clothes
£180 - 2 x driving lessons per month for 4 months (cant remember exactly)
£31 - theory test
£124 - 2 x practical driving test
£1000 birthday party
£440 - total on DVD's,CD's books etc
£476.66 - tobacco in total over 22 months
£396.00 - years worth of travel fares
£15.00 - weekly "spends"

He paid this money in over 22 months which is why I have worked out costs over 22 months. However, as I said, I don't have proof of all this money as most was given as cash.

Does he have a leg to stand on? He has also got some one else to email my hubby at work saying if we don't pay up, we will have something to cry to the police about, but I'm sure that when we report to the police and they investigate they will say my son has no knowledge of this and it was simply someone else doing it off their own back.

I'm worried about my job too although I have spoken to my boss already.

Any advice much appreciated.

[woofgang]

Okay, not a legal beagle but until one sees this.......
first of all save that email and any other communication from him, texts notes, the lot. I would now be refusing to speak to him and only communicate in writing. you might have receipts for stuff like the mobile phone and driving lessons and tests, get together every scrap of evidence that you have. I think that the "friend" who emailed you might well be keen to confirm that he was asked to send the email faced with the comment that he (the sender) will be facing a police charge of harassment otherwise.
I can't see him getting far with your employer if your reputation is otherwise good. Going to court costs money and I don't think he will get legal aid for this kind of claim.
Can you get some legal advice? you might try the CAB?

[RosieCornwall]

Thanks Woofgang, I have looked for reciepts but bearing in mind he moved out over a year ago and I can't find any at all, not even the one for the party although I did pay that in cheques. He's unemployed right now so I don't know if that makes a difference. I know he's very friendly with a legal secretary who I think advised him to send the email stating WITHOUT PREJUDICE on top of it.

The person who emailed my hubby has already been warned under the Harassment Act not to contact my hubby in August 2010 although I do know that there was no time limit specified at the time of warning him originallly so hopefully the Police will be able to do something about the threats, as the email basically said pay up or I'll give you something to cry to the police about you c***s.

He approached me outside my DD's school yesterday with something for DD which I refused to take from him and now this has happened. In the original email he sent, he said it's obvious you don't want a relationship with me and before we break off all contact I want my money back.

Just worried that I could end up in civil court, trying to prove that I spent money on him with no way of doing so.

[Barmaid]

Can he sue? Yes he can - however, how successful it will be is a different matter entirely since you potentially have either a complete defence or a "set off" (ie if he claims £8k from you, you can counterclaim £7,925 in return).

What was the precise terms of the agreement between you and your son (I assume DS means dear son?)? Please be as specific as possible - I think I already know the answer to this, but all the same I'd like the clarity. I'll come back to you on this in due course.

In respect of the email you have received, print a copy and report to the police. If he already has an HAW, the police should take it seriously.

Good that you keep your boss in the loop.

[RosieCornwall]

Thanks for the reply Barmaid. Basically, he was paying me £200 per month for a couple of months whilst working but also spending all his wages within about a week and then asking me for more money which I could barely afford to give him, although I did do so.

We had a conversation and he said that he would like help to manage his finances and that if he paid his wages into my account, would I pay for everything and then he could be sure it would last him. I agreed that this was okay and that I would pay all his bills such as mobile phone etc out of my account, which I did, and that I would also buy his clothes (with him of course) and any other things that he needed, such as books for college, toiletries etc and give him spending money, travel fares etc. At no time did I say to him that he should give me his money and then I will repay it back to him at some later date - why would I do this?

Now he's sofa surfing and desperate for money and saying that our agreement was that I would pay back the money to him at some point in the future and since I don't want a relationship with him, before we break off contact I should give him either £7700 as a lump sum or £500 per month starting in January 2013 and if I don't give him this money then he will contact my bosses with alleged impropriety which he says (and I quote) "I'm not particularly bothered if I'm honest, I just want this money and if nothing is heard back within the next 14 days I shall be taking legal advice on this matter and that would just be an inconvenience to all involved and may have upsetting consequences for you such as you losing your job". He also says that "if I had refused to pay more, I would have been removed from the household and I believe that if I wasn't forced to work then I wouldn't have messed up my education at college and my life would be better that it is now".

He worked whilst studying for his A levels but he had failed them prior to getting a job, was self harming and abusing drugs and alcohol and I begged him to give the job up on more than one occasion to focus on his studies. He ended up failing his A levels, started a different course, then bearing in mind that he walked out (wasn't thrown out of home but left of his own volition) 3 months into the course, you would hope he would do better if the job (by then history) was holding him back but he was subsequently asked not to return to the college to finish the second year because of his "attitude" problems at college (and this is a college renowned for taking in people who seriously need a fourth or fifth chance).

[tonywiltshire]

A sad but not unusual story. Remember it is not for you to prove the money was spent correctly but for him to satisfy a District Judge that you are in debt to him. Many people and organisations threaten action for alleged debt; very few people actually take action and then usually only if it is straight forward.
To prepare yourself for the unlikely event of action being taken keep a copy of all letters received and sent, think how they will sound in court, particularly if they are abusive, together with any other documentary evidence you may have. I suggest you write to him acknowledging receipt of his letter, explaining how the money was spent and stating you will not write again and remind him that his actions could cause mental anguish, alarm and distress and trying to coerce you into making a payment contrary to the Protection from Harassment act 1997. You may also wish to express your sadness at his actions, which will be personal. Then do nothing, often the hardest thing to do.
As stated it is a far from an unusual story when drugs are involved and hopefully you will soon get your old son back.

[Smowball]

Rosie - I cant offer any legal advice but just wanted to say you have my total sympathy - sounds a nightmare.

[RosieCornwall]

Thank you for your answer Tony. I do think too much water has gone under the bridge, he's trying to make my life as unpleasant as possible, putting lies on twitter etc about me and I'm not sure that I can move past this, as it doesn't only affect me but my other children too. He's lied so much over the past 3 years, damaged my relationship with another son by alleging sexual abuse then saying I forced him to make the allegations etc that I don't even know who he is anymore.

Now he has these (quite nasty) people hounding us, my car has had brake fluid poured over it, my wider family have been threatened and it's been a nightmare with the police saying they need "proof" and that even they (the Police) know it's him behind it, they need solid evidence. Hopefully with this new email something might be done about it all.

I will do as you advise. I didn't realise that he had to prove that I owed him the money, I thought I had to prove that I didn't.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[VHG]

I think he is just "trying it on" as he is probably now in debt (being unemployed) or maybe has drug debts to pay off.

I doubt if he will sue you for the money as that will cost HIM money to pay legal fees which he wont have.

Also if it was all "verbal agreements" then he has no more proof about the money than you do.

I would just call his bluff.

I think you will be ok at work. Why should they sack you, based on the word of your son, who is a drug addict.

[Barmaid]

Sorry, I got involved in stuff.....

What the other posters (particularly Tony) have said is correct. He has to prove that you owe him. You could defend it in the alternative "I owe him nothing because the real agreement was xyz" but in the alternative that if the Court finds the agreement was made as he says that you have a counterclaim for monies paid on his behalf on his request. In this type of arrangement, the Court will not expect receipts for every single payment since this was a familial agreement and not a commercial contract. It will also be patently obvious to the Court that whilst living with you you defrayed the majority of his living costs.

I would write back as Tony suggests but also add that you refute his claims entirely since the real agreement was that you would manage his money for him; which you did and the money was spent entirely on him in defraying his living costs.

I think the practical reality of this is that he won't sue. If he is really going to claim £8,000 it will be a "fast-track" case (ie not a small claims). He is going to find it quite difficult to do this without legal assistance and I very much doubt his "legal secretary" friend will have the nouse to fully plead particulars of claim.

[TWR]

What un grateful sod, you have had good advice, try & get proof from your bank, it will cost you for them to go into their records, & as said, talk to your boss, at the end of all this & if you are strong enough, sue the un greatfull sod. Good Luck, you certainly need it with this bad sod.

[RosieCornwall]

Thank you all so much for your answers and your support.

My hubby has received another email to HIS work from my son saying that we've been warned and if we don't pay the money than he won't be responsible for what happens to us. He is claiming that he was forced to pay me his wages and his friends are really pissed off. He ends the email "it's up to you what you do but don't say you haven't been warned".

Unhappily, due to my hubby's job, his bosses are copied in by the server at work on all incoming emails, so looks like he could end up in trouble with all this happening, if indeed we even keep our jobs.

[factor-fiction]

I doubt very much indeed that our jobs are at risk because of this

[factor-fiction]

^ sorry, I meant to type YOUR jobs

[Barmaid]

Rosie - print that email off and take it to the police. There is a threat there. Irrespective of that, tell the police that this contact is causing you both distress and worry and see if they will issue a warning to your son.

I would also be upfront and honest with both employers and explain that you are trying to prevent your son and his mates from contacting you at work, there is little you can do about electronic communication. It would be a harsh boss that sacked anyone for receiving unwanted communication at work.

[rockyracoon]

Dear son, dear daughter, it's netmumese.

[TWR]

After what you have written about this ungrateful sod Rosie, I'd like to meet him?? sound to me as if he wants a good slapping.

[bednobs]

Ds = son
DD= daughter

[boxtops]

rosie, our work emails have a junk blocker where you can right-click on a post then identify it as "junk", then when it's moved into the Junk folder you can right click and "Block Sender".