Has The Welfare System Created A Monster 2?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304037/Mick-Philpott-benefits-culture-George-Osborne-attacked-Labour-saying-UK-needs-debate-welfare.html

Earlier in the week I posted a thread "Has The Welfare System Created A Monster"?

This was based on a Daily Mail report, and yesterday George Osborne made similar comments and was slated by labour for doing so, was this fair?

George Osborne was not in anyway taking the opportunity of using this tragic case to get over a political point, neither were the Daily Mail or myself.

Mick Phillpott was a 'infamous celebrity' way before he resorted to murdering his children, due mostly to the generous state handouts he enjoyed, and are not most responsible for the celebrity status that he so lavishly enjoyed?

This was encouraged by the media especially television, with the Jeremy Kyle Show, Breakfast TV, and that Ann Widdecombe documentary, some members of the public seemed to get some sort of disturbing enjoyment out of watching these shows, as do some who 'rubber neck' accidents.

Why is this with some people?

[jake-the-peg]

Has the NHS created a monster?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

Harold shipman was able to murder all those people because of the NHS

Logic's about as good!



Incidently I didn't thinkPhilpott was convicted for murder- did I miss something?

[emmie]

he was in Derby talking to some workers, i was listening to what he was saying, and didn't care for his remarks, seeing as how this case has just been closed, with the three sentenced. That should been it, why make any political points on the back of these people. I would think they are aberrations in a mostly decent society. many people just trying to get by, make a living, even those people need some help. so it's no good just dumping the blame entirely on the welfare state, those three wretches were to blame for their lives, and the lives of their children. the parents failed at every level.

[emmie]

guilty of manslaughter.

[jake-the-peg]

I must say I have had my confidence in people's intelligence rather restored by the widespread negative responses to cheap attempts to piggyback political points on the back of this case.

I rather thought 'Oh here we go!' when it started and was quite pleasantly surprised when it was seen through so thoroughly!

[sp1814]

George Osborne was not in anyway taking the opportunity of using this tragic case to get over a political point, neither were the Daily Mail or myself.

Yes they were.

The murder was done out of spite for his ex-mistress.

Nothing to do with the benefits system.

http://themediablog.typepad.com/

[sp1814]

Hear hear em10.

A perfect summary.

[Zeuhl]

His career as a narcissistic control freak (particularly of women) to the point of attempted murder

began when he was a serving soldier in the British Army

There is just as much (or little) logic in the question:

Has the British Army created a Monster?

There are thankfully very few Mick Philpotts

Let's not fall into the trap of attaching more significance to their behaviour than intelligent reflection would suggest

George Osborne should know better (but clearly doesn't)

[emmie]

sp, it was to some extent as Philpott was set to lose out benefit wise when the girlfriend left with the five children, and according to the reports, he was looking to get a larger home, so that would have been more money.
He was a sponging, cretinous, lowlife scumbag, who preyed on women, was controlling and used his children as cash cows. I am glad he has gone to jail, and that he will serve 15 years. 6 children dead, all because of him, he should rot.

[emmie]

zeuhl, from what i read on here, he deserted after 11 months, not exactly time to become anything other than the rat he turned out to be. My feeling is that he was like it before he went into the army, which incidentally was early twenties. He almost killed a girlfriend by stabbing her endless times, not to mention her mother, he got seven years and served 3 and a half, that was from someone else's comments.. so i can't confirm that.

[Sqad]

jake-the-peg

\\\I must say I have had my confidence in people's intelligence rather restored by the widespread negative responses to cheap attempts to piggyback political points on the back of this case.\\

God...we are so glad.

[Zeuhl]

Quite right em

wiki

/In July 1978, aged 21, whilst absent without leave from the army, Philpott attempted to murder his girlfriend Kim Hill, with whom he had been conducting a two-year relationship, which began when Hill was 15. Philpott had previously been violent to his girlfriend, including shooting her in the groin with a crossbow because he felt her dress was too short, and cracking her kneecap with a hammer when she paid too much attention to a baby she was minding.

Philpott attempted to kill Hill because she sent him a letter saying she was splitting up with him. He stabbed her over a dozen times as she was lying in bed.[7] He stabbed her mother when she came to her daughter's aid. Hill suffered collapsed lungs, and a punctured bladder, kidney and liver, which she believes caused her subsequent liver cancer. Philpott was convicted of attempted murder of Hill, and grievous bodily harm with intent against her mother,[8] and was sentenced to seven years in prison in December 1978.[9][10][11] Philpott was released after three years and two months/

Using this sort of individual as a stick to beat the Welfare System with is ridiculous

[emmie]

no we are not, please don't be so patronising, it's strange that some see Osborne comments as completely right, that the welfare state is a monster, out of control, but other see things slightly differently, we all have different ways to approach things, and can weigh up the situation. I didn't think Osborne should have made those comments in that place, at that time.
nor should he have said that the vast majority of people agree with him, do they? have a referendum on it and you will get a vastly different picture.

[Sharingan]

The judge herself said it was nothing to do with money or the benefits system, and she should know since she listened to all the evidence and not just George Osborne trying to capitalise on the situation to try to whip up hatred for people on benefits so that his cuts which will affect thousands of people negatively would appear more justified. He should really be ashamed of himself making such an offensive link.

[Zeuhl]

Perhaps the Daily Whinge can find a few thousand Welfare recipients who:

do volunteer work for charities
help their neighbours
look after disabled relatives

etc etc

What would be a suitable headline I wonder?.... How about:

Has the Welfare System Created Angels?

Can't see it happening somehow. It doesn't fit the 'Britain is broken/going to the dogs' agenda

[Zacs-Master]

Agreed Zeuhl. A tenuous link even by AOG's standards.

[emmie]

make the comments if he really thought it through, but not on the day of the sentence, nor indeed in Derby, capitalising on others grief, it was a bad political mistake.

[emmie]

The changes that have been made have affected me, and lots like me, well there we are, i can fight it perhaps or try and get on as best as one can.
I confess i can't cut back on anything else, otherwise i will be paying them.

[vulcan42]

I don't think the welfare system created a monster, Philpott did a pretty good job of that himself, he did exploit the system and that should certainly be looked at. Incidentally, why the overfamiliarity with this person, a reporter on the radio yesterday referred to him just as Mick. Odd I thought.

[emmie]

perhaps he couldn't remember his surname.

[Zeuhl]

em

I hope you're not buying luxuries...

like food?

or perhaps some tasteful and attractively priced home furnishings?

http://www.osborneandlittle.com/