Listener No. 4377: Russian Roulette By Rasputin

[fyellin]

A very entertaining and well-constructed puzzle. Hard to believe how much the setter fit into such a small space.

One minor quibble. The thematic subject of the puzzle, as described by its Wikipedia article, seems to be incorrect. The setter seems to have used the Wikipedia description. If you follow the reference in the article, it shows something every-so-slightly different. I believe the reference is authoritative.

[Contrarian]

Yes, a very impressive feat of construction.

A former contributor to these threads, who posts no longer, would have appreciated the theme.

[jim360]

I was wondering who would be the first to query whether the final presentation is the correct one. There seems to be some ambiguity, as there often is with some older examples of the genre -- I think benefit of the doubt should go to the setters on this one.

As it happens I've not quite finished yet, but all the important stuff is sorted.

[Alekhine]

Contrarian ... I just had to drop in for this one.

Yes, very much appreciated.

[olichant]

So - I absolutely loved this.

What a great puzzle. Some really lovely clues. My heart slightly sank when I saw there were clashes (I hate clashes) - but it popped right up again when I saw that the clashes were to be flagged by wordplay.

I confess, I'm slightly biased, because it was a Rasputin puzzle on a spring morning back in 2012 that first got me into the Listener. But bias aside, this was great fun.

Cracking puzzle. Thanks, Rasputin.

[olichant]

ps Alekhine - nice to have you back (if we do, and I hope we do).

Happy Christmas to everyone who gathers here.

[emcee]

Great puzzle but I too have a difference from that depicted online (g and h).

[emcee]

And, as usual, as soon as I write, the problem resolves itself.

There's a YouTube video which corresponds exactly to Rasputin's.

Thanks to the setter, very entertaining.

[doctormatt]

Lovely puzzle everything I love about Listeners in one!

[Cruncher]

Very entertaining. Thank you Rasputin

[starwalker]

Lovely puzzle very neatly put together. Thanks to all in Rasputin and a Merry Christmas to those who visit here.

[fyellin]

@jim360: As I said, just a quibble. I'm more than willing to give the setter the benefit of the doubt when he is able to create something so magnificent.

I talked to a co-worker who has a copy of the original author's notes. The referenced version seems to correspondence to the subject itself. The Wikipedia version is "theoretical".

[upsetter]

There appears to be no instruction in the preamble as to how to do full justice to the theme in the presentation of the finished article.
Expect something spectacular when this one appears in listenwithothers.com

[jim360]

On the other hand, Shirley isn't likely to be blogging this one (you'll have to make do with mine instead). Still, I expect Dave's will be pretty special.

[Ruthrobin]

I'm sure Shirley can come up with some arty thing - just as a gesture of thanks to all the great folk making such fine comments here.

[Cruncher]

Ah Shirl, is this a red shift from Chalicea?

[Scorpius]

What a brilliant puzzle. I found some of the clues quite tricky so I didn't get to theme until this morning. I'm not sure what the ambiguity referred to is. Perhaps I better check my solution carefully.

[jim360]

To clarify: there's no ambiguity in the puzzle solution. The question is whether or not the depiction in the thematic area occurred historically in the thematic source. I believe the answer to that is "probably not". But, as the difference is only four cells on the right of the thematic area and there's no real need for the setters to have picked the exact final position it doesn't really matter except as a point of historical interest.

[UglyUncle]

This may well be the POTY that some of us have been struggling to identify until now. I was a bit alarmed when I read that there was an ambiguity, but I agree that the solution required by the setters is perfectly clear. And that's the main thing, given some of the real ambiguities we've had to contend with (and be laid low by) over the past twelve months.

Some very clever clues to keep the solving going a bit longer than usual, with pleasing PDMs in many cases, e.g. 8, 9 and 24.

[Alekhine]

To help with the so-called 'ambiguity', I think jim360 is right in that we are talking about the difference between the representation of what actually occurred and the 'what would probably have happened next' (and it is this which accounts for the earlier capitulation).

Rasputin's excellent puzzle has depicted the latter.

[fyellin]

OK. A co-solver pointed out that there *is* an ambiguity in the instructions:

"Solvers must erase from the thematic area all letters not in the thematic set, and shade half of the cells therein." Does "therein" refer to the thematic area or the thematic set? Half the thematic area wants to be shaded. So does half the thematic set.

I had assumed the first interpretation (thematic area), but upon reading and re-reading, I'm not so sure.