Whitehaven Coal Mine?

[mushroom25]

Planning inquiry started today. on one side, the mining company and the steel industry's need for coke. on the other, the environmental lobby who claim that a new coal mine will, er, undermine the UK's climate commitment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-58467209

the environmentalists say that the steel industry is a major contributor to greenhouse gases and this needed to change. not sure how since at this time, there is no way of producing steel at quantity without coke. (scrap steel, although important, forms a very small part of the new steel supply chain). if coal for steel industry coke is not mined in the UK, it will be imported - at great carbon footprint cost - from the USA.

should the mine be allowed, and coke for the steel industry be made in the UK?

[New Judge]

Yes the mine should be granted permission.

As you say, steel cannot be made in any great quantity without the need for coal. It might be possible some day but that day hasn't arrived and is unlikely to arrive any time soon.

The problem with "environmentalists" is that they see a problem and propose a solution, but their solution simply creates another problem (which they don't seem to particularly care about).

Once they've opened the mine they can set about recommissioning one or two of the coal fired power stations that they have not yet demolished because the next "big thing" will not be climate change; it will be a severe energy shortage - of both electricity and gas - which will probably manifest itself as early as this coming winter. It will present an immediate and pressing emergency - a far greater emergency than the one peddled about by the self-opinionated, hypocritical exhibitionists who blocked Tower Bridge and other important thoroughfares last week.

It's time to get real with energy provision. Lots of human activities depend on burning things in one way or another and it will not stop. Best to get used to it rather than try to prevent it.

[ToraToraTora]

I think we should leave the coke supply to Tony Montana.

[gulliver1]

Thatcher, has just turned in her grave.

[youngmafbog]

Yes, the mine should be allowed to go ahead. It doesnt make sense either from a commercial or a 'Global warming' sense (if you believe in it).

The environmentalists would have us all back in caves. Problem is, looking at them, there would be zero chance of them self surviving as one would have to hunt meat.

[gulliver1]

Best try and get some real tough E/U workers back to the U/K then.
Present day Brits won't go down the mines like their fathers and grand fathers did , it's too easy on Benefits

[tamaris]

I'm from Whitehaven originally. The locals are happy for it to open. It will provide much needed jobs.

[jourdain2]

Of course it should open. We need more. Only today I read that old coal-fired power stations have had to be fired up to provide power during this windless time.

I've never understood the fanatical embrace of windmills, the wind can stop for days on end (as has happened). I know tidal power is more expensive etc., etc., but tides are reliable - a lot of money spent on wind power could have been spent on tidal.

[douglas9401]

Alas, that ship has sailed.

[Gromit]

We should stop signing up to agreements that we have no intention of keeping. It makes us look stupid.
Boris gets all the plaudits for committing to reducing emissions. Then next minute he is giving permission for a serious polluting scheme.
Johnson loves good press and seeks it out. But then stupidly does everything to undermine it.

[fcc]

Yes it should be allowed to open,we are an island built on coal,so why not use it.

[Untitled]

Steel can be manufactured using hydrogen instead of coke... the industry is rapidly moving in that direction anyway. The environmentalists are correct... The climate is more important than the convenience of steel companies who have alternative technologies available... It does not make sense to open a plant using this outdated and harmful technology that will be obsolete in the near future!

[Untitled]

"doesnt make sense either from a commercial or a 'Global warming' sense (if you believe in science)."

fixed that for you youngmafbog :-)

[DTCwordfan]

What's the CO2 and other emissions resulting from making the H2 needed in such large quantities for steel (inc making the equipment - so total life cycle) versus opening the mine up and exploiting the resource versus importing it from the States or wherever? Therein lies the answer, one that I can not provide.

[Untitled]

Present ways of extracting hydrogen are quite carbon intensive but it does not take a genius to see that the world is moving away from this quite quickly:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/12/14/green-hydrogen-the-fuel-of-the-future-set-for-50-fold-expansion/

We are far better off making investments that will be sustainable in the long-term... coal-intensive steel is not the future...

[Untitled]

Coal is a corpse propped up by the chinese state... Chinese private sector going in a completely different way!)... makes no sense to throw money at a dying industry does it

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/07/the-world-is-kicking-its-coal-habit-china-is-still-hooked

[fender62]

i don't care one iota if it keeps the lights on, fire it up
imagine if all the lights went off in a city for just an hour or two..chaos

[10ClarionSt]

It didn't stop Thatcher closing down mines in the UK then importing the coking coal from Australia and South Africa. There's loads of hypocrisy about carbon gubbins. The country needs it, so do it.

[bobbinwales]

Gromit the target can still be met by doing other things like reducing car emissions or insulating houses better but it dosnt mean not doing the right thing just because of wanting to be seen to be focusing on the target. We should open this mine and look elsewhere for green savings

[gulliver1]

TGL.... "That Ghastly Lady ",,,,, would not have liked this news.

[mushroom25]

wide scale use of hydrogen as the wonder-drug alternative to fossil fuel is years away.

in the steel industry, experiments with hydrogen in blast furnaces shows that the furnace temperature is much reduced so the reduction (coking) process takes much longer (QED uses more resources) and introduces technical problems which will be exercising minds for a good few years yet.

in the transport industry, the one hydrogen powered train (to be "triumphantly" displayed at COP26) has 25% less carrying capacity, and 30% less installed power. ultimately a process that uses large quantities of electricity to make hydrogen to then make electricity for the train is only 16% efficient as a process. nobody will sign up to that.