Could Farage And The Tories Trick People Into Leaving The Echr?

[Hymie]

Based on a number of posts on this site, quite a few ABers have already swallowed that trick hook, line and sinker.

 

Should it ever come to a vote on us leaving the ECHR, or some serious political party advocating such a move – everyone should be under no illusion of the rights they’d lose, before voting.

 

Fortunately most advocating us leaving the ECHR are the same fools who told us how fantastic Brexit would be – and look at how that worked out; not that any of them are apologising for the disaster.

 

[douglas9401]

We have a saying up here: "He's as fly as a bag of weasels"

He does seem to be able to charm quite a few with his man-of -the-people schtick.

[Old_Geezer]

Never need any tricks to show folk the rational way forward.

[Old_Geezer]

Ah I see the "fool" calling started early. I guess there's no substance to the argument then.

[jourdain2]

'the fools who told us how fantastic Brexit would be - and look how that worked out' - yes, not bad is it?  3rd largest exporters in the world and all sorts of other goodies announced today.  There's a thread on it.  

We still need to strong-arm the EU into giving up on our fish etc., but not bad so far.

[New Judge]

A few "matters arising":

1. What "rights" that would UK citizens lose if it was to leave the ECHR?

2. Why do you continue to call 17m people who voted for Brexit "fools". They simply have a different opinion to you and are no more foolish than you are.

3. As I continually counsel, they would be fooish to listen and form an opinion based on what politicians tell them, let alone cast a vote on anything from a Parish Council election upwards on that basis.

4. What makes you think a referendum would be needed to take the UK out of the ECHR?

5. No UK government of any persuasion will withdraw the UK from the ECHR. If for no other reason, the ECHR is inextricably entwined around the Good Friday Agreement and, sad as I am  to admit it, no government will mess with that ludicrous can of worms. 

[Hymie]

NJ – in references to point #5, Reform UK has a stated policy of the UK leaving the ECHR.

[Hymie]

NJ – in reference to point #3, people are stupid - some even believe what Nigel Farage says.

[naomi24]

I've not watched your video and I have no idea what Mr Farage or anyone else of potential influence thinks of the ECHR but from my own perspective alone the sooner we kick it into touch the better.  It's not fit for purpose.

[New Judge]

"NJ – in references to point #5, Reform UK has a stated policy of the UK leaving the ECHR."

Yes, but I mentioned "government".  Reform are not remotely likely to be in a position to form a government.

"NJ – in reference to point #3, people are stupid - some even believe what Nigel Farage says."

People believe all sorts of politicians. Some even believed Tony Blair and some now believe Sir Kier Starmer. But "stupid" is too pejoritive. They may be foolish or naive, but stupid is simply insolent and there's no need for it.

Any news on your research into the "rights" which UK citizens may lose if we leave the ECHR? I assume you've already established some since you opened this question by mentioning them).

My view on the Convention (stupid as it may sound) is that it is interpreted far too widely by its judges (see yesterday's ruling against Switzerland on climate change), it is no longer fit for purpose (if it ever was) and nobody in the UK will be any the worse off if we withdrew from it. But my view is also that no UK government will withdraw from it (despite any noise and bluster they may make). So I dion't think you need to worry.

[newmodarmy]

Hymie's told us before NewJudge- apparently women will lose the right to equal pay, slavery will no longer be illegal, etc etc

[ichkeria]

You are right NJ.But calling the GFA a "luducrous can of worms" for all its shortcomings, is unworthy of you 

[Hymie]

newmodarmy said // Hymie's told us before NewJudge- apparently women will lose the right to equal pay, slavery will no longer be illegal, etc etc//

 

As I pointed out at the time, when the EU revocation Bill resulted in the removal of the right of women to equally pay, the government rushed through legislation to maintain that right – but who in their right mind would trust the Tory government to guarantee your rights and freedoms; if we leave the ECHR it will be in the gift of our government to remove any and all of those rights.

Only a madman would give our government that power.

[New Judge]

“As I pointed out at the time, when the EU revocation Bill…”

But we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about specifically the UK withdrawing from the ECHR. That is the subject of this (your) question. Let’s leave aside who you do or don’t trust to maintain them; what rights which UK citizens currently enjoy will be lost if we withdraw from the Convention?

“But calling the GFA a "luducrous can of worms" for all its shortcomings, is unworthy of you”

It’s because of all its shortcomings that it is a can of worms, ikky. In particular, an agreement that provides for an Assembly which depends on its existence on consensus between two parties, as opposite politically as the North and South Poles, can be nothing but ludicrous. I need say nothing more to support that contention than to point out that the said Assembly has been suspended for 40% of the time since its formation precisely because that consensus has not been forthcoming. Far from being unworthy of me, it would be irresponsible to take any other view of the GFA. I don’t think any UK government is likely to withdraw from the ECHR, but with the GFA heavily dependent upon the UK’s compliance with it, any small chance there might have been is reduced to zero. The country’s membership of the ECHR - an  issue which effects the entire United Kingdom – cannot even begin to be properly debated whilst the GFA and the ECHR are so entwined.