national curriculum - should it include sign language and first aid?

[joko]

I believe that, rather than learning non-essential subjects such as german, french and RE for 5 whole years, we should have things like sign language and first aid on the curriculum.

i am not suggesting these subjects are useless, but out of them all they are the ones i have used least in my adult life - but nor am i suggesting scrapping them, just that first aid and SL are subjects can be taught in a relatively short time and surely a month or twos worth of the above lessons could be sacrificed in order to teach our kids life saving skills and to communicate with people who are isolated enough in some ways.

[goldenboy]

i also think that during at least one lesson of careers in school, children should be taught what to do with regard to signing on. how to do it, what your entitlements are, etc. i say this as i work in a jobcentre and most children of student age seem to think that they're entitled to almost anything in state benefits and they' are not. believe me!

[Drisgirl]

What a great topic.First Aid is occasionally incorpotated in PE.(well it was when I was school).Perhaps up to and including 2nd yr - one period a week.When you go into 3rd year then if you select PE then you are serious about achieving.

Signing is another excellent idea - I have a deaf auntie and cousin and I can get by with lip reading and generally gesticulating.My parents sign in conjuction with mouthing.We do have a laugh when we get stuck but there is always someone there to bail us out.Knowing the basics and perhaps lip reading from a deaf person along with someone who could initially translate would be an advantage and fun.My cousin does this in England.Great idea!!

[flashpig]

I have never needed to sign, but I have been on holidays to France and Germany and met a few French and German people.

The 2 deaf people I have ever met could lip read and talk perfectly well, so in my view this would be a wasted lesson.

Plus, if all schoolkids could sign no work would be done and nobody would pay attention as they would all be silently nattering away to one another. The people who did take up learning to sign used to do it, and it was so annoying. Through lessons, at the theatre or cinema, arm always flapping! So annoying!

I was also taught basic first aid as well at school, although I can't remember what lesson it was in. Maybe in science or PE.

[Drisgirl]

Flashpig - oh how annoying they flap their arms about - at least they are learning.My auntie and cousin dont perceive themselves as disabled as they have never known any different.I daresay the 2 people you met are like my family - they have adjusted to accomodate us as we dont make any effort.The happiest people you couldnt meet and just think they come against people like you on a daily basis and retain their dignity and humour.

I genuinely thought this was a really genuine positive post for a change -should have known better !

[joko]

i realise kids could be annoying, signing in lessons, but at least they wouldn't be as annoying and disruptive to others as the kids who whisper, and speakl out lod and pass notes.

as i said, i wasn't suggesting stopping other languages, but surely a lesson a week or whatever won't prevent you from learning your chosen language.

people say they've never needed sign language or lip reading, but perhaps they just don't even attempt a conversation with a deaf person because they think it would be too much hassle.

i was never taught first aid at school, i did a course at college.

i think many lives would be saved if people were brought up from an early age with the confidence to step in and feel competant that they know what they are doing when their is an accident instyead of standing around gawping, too afraid to do anything in case they get it wrong. - and also learn that its the right thing to do!

when i was about 14 i was standing in the que at burger king when i girl collapsed in the next cue, blood everywhere, tooth out and unconscious - everyone just stood there and looked, watching her blood spread across the floor - one guy did a curious little leap forward poked her in the back and then did a backwards leap back into his place in the queue - typical british, can't lose their place in the queue - i wanted to do something but as a kid didn't know what - i felt helpless! her friend appeared and she was fine, just fainted, and lost a tooth, but it could have been anything.

[joko]

apologies for all the typos and grammar there - usually spell check but pressed button too quick

[flashpig]

It is bloody annoying in the theatre!

Frankly I would rather have them discreetly whispering to one another.

(I'm not saying sign language is rubbish, but there's a time and a place)

[stevie_c2it]

Good question. I understand your point about the value of some subjects in �real-life�, although I�m not sure I�d be too happy placing a value judgement on whether sign language is more useful than say, French. It could well provoke an interesting debate based on people�s personal experiences. I�d like to see a greater awareness of both subjects at school level though, with the option to study them if desired.

Drisgirl, you biting again? Grrrr get down girl. She� a sweetie really!

[joko]

anyway, sign language can be done in very small movements, it isn't necessarily all big gestures.

i think compared to the benefits, you being irritaed in a dark theate when you should be looking at the stage, is a price i can live with.

you can shut your eyes or look away - you cannot shut your ears to chatter and whispers

[joko]

stevie - my point was exactly that - neither is more important than the other, but at the moment sign language and first aid is generally not studied AT ALL in schools.

I just meant that some subjects can afford to be lessened more than others, just for a short while, in order for the kids to learn valuable skills. their language skills will not suffer for it. (of course, it could be worked out that other subjects missed the odd lesson too, depending on the choices the child makes)

a lot of language lessons, towards the last year or two of school, focus on practise rather than learning new words and ways of speech etc anyway, so they could do that in their own time too

[campbellking]

Have very basic French and sign language, and have had to use both within the last month with my patients. Both were equally delighted that I had made the effort to communicate with them in their language. Not all deaf people can lip-read. On the first-aid front, I referee football matches at the weekends, and the average treatment meted out to players is somewhat interesting (and the people giving treatments have to have a basic first-aid qualification). I would love more first aid to be taught in schools, but people need to take it upon themselves to keep up to date. CPR recommended procedures tend to change on a yearly basis.

[Drisgirl]

Stevie - perceptive as usual.I was suggesting perhaps once a month type lessons which could be incorparated in RE or SE whichever is taught where you are.Absolutely not as an option to French or German or whatever.Signing is interesting and would benefit children in later life - it is not actually that difficult to learn because its not all about spelling out on your fingers.Certain signs signify a whole sentence in spoken English.I personally would rather learn this than RE (go to church for that) although SE was a great laugh (what my granny and grandad did that!!!)

campbellking - I rest my case - well done.I know how you feel and it is fulfilling to be able to communicate with everyone albeit on a basic level.

[jno]

I can only say that I learnt French and German at school (this was long ago) but not signing or first aid. I have had occasion to use the languages when visiting those and other countries; I have never been called on to sign or to render first aid. Obviously other people's experiences will be different; but I can say my own schooling worked out for the best.

[gary baldy]

At some of the more progressive (ie more expensive) pre school nurseries they teach signing to toddlers. its much easier to teach at that age. There is a programme on cbeebies called 'something special' and that teaches signing aswell - my daughter loves it and it is very intuative.
I really wanted to learn more but you cant just do things for fun at night school anymore - you have to do qualifications with modules in"Understanding The Needs of the Aurally Challenged" and the like! ive had a deaf mother for all my life so i know their blinking needs already!
I wish i'd learnt signing at school instead of useless maths (see drusilla's mega post about the futility of maths)

[mimififi]

If BSL was being taught in mainstream schools and if it was on the the basic, stage 1 or even stage 2 BSL was a requirement for classroom teachers, then maybe we could have deaf children in mainstream school. I always think it is just such a waste that we don't have more profoundlyu deaf children in school, and yet there are several schools (I taught in one) who have blind and partially sighted children in mainstream. They are buddied with another student, leave lessons early to get to the next one safely, and teacher have to send all their worksheets to the eye unit early to have them put into braille.... in some ways, deaf children need much less special care and yet you see them in mainstream much less. BSL on the curriculum would be great, but I wouldn't want MFL axed al together tho.

First aid would be excellent too, I send my children to the St John Ambulence group for children on friday evenings. There they get to learn all the First Aid, go on camps, get badges, and certificates, meet other kids, go to concerts and other stuff free if they are with the st john ambulence medics and learn all about other things such as personal hygience, food, diet etc etc. I wouldn't want First aid taught by teachers, it's way tooo important, I would want to see a specialist come into schools to teach it, eg the St John. Or other groups.

Excellent all round education, I like the sound of that.

[mimififi]

sorry, that was written awfully. I'm very tired, apologies. I meant to say if basic stage 1 or stage 2 BSL was on the curriculum for student teachers, i.e a requirement for their training.......et cetera.....

Im going to bed now.
night night

[yummymummy]

I agree with the principle, but maybe something along the lines of 'how to get along in society' with things like, basic consumer/legal rights, how to apply for jobs/benefits, financial info etc might be more appropriate to the majority of people. Not that first aid and sign language aren't important, but I think that a lot of young people have no idea about the most basic ways to get on in life which perhaps should be built on first, with extra things added.

Maybe they do something like this now, but when I was at school (10+ years ago) our Personal and Social Education lessons were a joke and I can't remember anything I was taught in them.

[joko]

Yummymummy - i agree totally.

instead on forcing kids into 5 solid years of chemistry, maths, music, whatever - pretty much every subject could lose, say 5 lessons each out of their whole 5 school years and it wouldn't make any difference to the childs abilities in that subject - not a dent

all those extra half hours here and there could be spread out to emcompass these subjects - regarding the law one, a booklet with all the basics in and some time to go through each section in the clasroom would be sufficient - then they would all have a reference book to refer to in later life.

as goldenboy mentioned, how to get the dole etc but also basic household stuff like - working an emmersion heater, bleeding radiators, using a washing machine, changing a plug or fuse, setting a theormostat - all sorts of thing that a parent should perhaps teach their kids - but don't. these things could be done as a one off lesson with printouts or something.

and also things like tax etc - you had to opt in to economics 20 years ago and i think unless you are intending to become a scientist, botanist, musician, english teacher etc one of the other subjects could be sacrificed and opted out of

[joko]

it seem, based on all these responses that the school curriculum is due for a drastic rethink - how much of your school education has been long since forgotten?

we need to be teaching useful things, that all of us have to get to grips with at some time or another. things that can actually cause us trouble if they are not known

also perhaps some elements of survival training could be included in with the first aid training - just the basics.

also blasting old wives tales?

and basic on food storage etc - you be surprised how many people think putting an open tin of food in the fridge and keeping it for days is okay! or just cutting the mould off things, or etc etc etc

what do you think?

[mimififi]

Although, what they could do is just put all the boys in a school and teach them all about radiators and engines and mortgages and stuff and then they could just do all that stuff for us?

They could put all the girls in a school and teach them cooking and music and cross stitch and putting things in fridges and how to bath a baby etc etc and we could do all that stuff.....

What do you think Joko???? eh, eh, eh?

(IM JOKING!!!!! sorry, couldn't resist. I actually agree with you 100%. I think more real life should be taught in school. In Europe children are in school for longer in the year so it would be easy to teach extra stuff if we extended the school day and got rid of rubbish like PSCE and assembly and stuff. Teachers could have to double their skills so art teachers also taught food hygiene and physics teacher taught motor maintenence etc I home school my children and the do less numeracy/literacy per day but are further ahead, plus my son plays the piano extremely well and they can both cook, make a baby's bottle (using sterile equipment) change a plug carry out basic first aid, not because I've taught them but because we 'live' it. Every day is a learning day. Go Joko. JOKO for Education secretary!!!!!) :-)