Loft conversion that has no planning consent....

[kira000]

We went to view a house today. When we got there, the agent disclosed that the property has had a loft conversion done but without planning permission/consent.

We are quite interested in the house, but we arent sure what the situation would be with the conversion.

Obviously one would have to get it checked structurally by a surveyor before using it, but assuming it was safe, we we wondering about what would happen if you wanted to sell at a later date.
Is it likely that one could apply for retrospective planning permission? Or would it be more likely that you had to strip it all back and start again?

Any thoughts most helpful, thanks!

[Ethel]

Can the vendor apply for retrospective planning permission?

Does it comply to building regs and planning regs? They really are stringent for this sort of conversion, and can involve things such as party wall agreements; fire escape; fire doors; access; foundations; the strength of the floor; insulation ; ventilation; and so on.

At lot of these points simply cannot be assessed by eye.

[kira000]

Thanks Ethel.

Yes, lots of aspects to be considered. The property is a repo, being sold by an estate manager (Not an auction), which i suspect means they wouldnt be willing to do the process of application themselves.

I think where we are at is assuming it is not a viable conversion, and offering a price that assumes a good amount of work is required to make it good one way or the other.

We went not knowing the conversion was there, so if we could not use it, we wouldnt have lost much.

[buildersmate]

There are two issues here - planning consent (which you've identified) and Building Control regulations (which you haven't). The latter is more likely to be an issue than the first.
Does the property have dormer windows that were constructed as part of the construction (versus does it have Veluxs)? If Veluxs, it is less likely to have required Planning consent.
has it been there more than 4 years and it can be proved so? If so, no problem - the planning authority can now do nothing about it (assuming it needed PP in the first place).
You can regularise the situation with a Certificate of Lawful Development - costs the same as making a Planning Application but the authority cannot deny you it.

Now the real issue - Building Regs. The owner needs to prove to you that BC regulations were sought. If not, the problems are likely to be threefold. 1) Meeting fire regulations if it is now a three story dwelling. Involves changing every door that opens onto the hall and landing to be a 30 minute fire door. Expensive if it wasn't done.
2) Insulation. How do you know that the design met minimum insualtion stds? Expensive to put right.
3)Structural. How do you know the joists were strong enough for the third storey.
Numbers 2) and 3) are very difficult to retrospectively prove, because one needs to strip certain surfaces back to see what is underneath.
Can they show you the drawings it was done to? - probably not - as it was done by a friend of a friend or a builder who should have known better.
Best not to touch.

[buildersmate]

(the above was written prior to Ethel's question and your reply appearing).

[kira000]

Hi Buildersmate.

Good answer. As you can see from my previous reply, as the previous owners arent involved anymore, i'm not sure we will be able to get the info you specified about the plans, and who did it.

I take on board your cautionary warning about avoiding given then unknowns, and you've given us much food for thought.

I know the estate managers are open to offers, in your opinion, if we DID decide to go ahead, what sort of figure would be a reasonable amount to deduct from asking price as allowance for potential work to investigate and put right. �10K? �15K, �20k?

Thanks

[loonytunes]

I have just bought a house which had a conservatory built without any permissions, either planning or builidng regs. Although I was told it was not necessary to ge them, the bank would not lend unless the vendors took out an indemnity policy to cover the fact that such permissions were not obtained. This covered them against costs of rectifying the situation if necessary in years to come. It cose �320.

[monkeyeyes]

This type of 'conversion' is such if you treated it as much.
Unless investigations show that it conforms to the Building Regulations, any vendor cannot class it as a 'habitable' room; it cannot be deemed to be an extra bedroom, etc.

However, if you and your family would be content to use it as a nicely appointed storage area, in the same manner as most lofts are used, there ought to be no additional problems. And you are perfectly at liberty to sell it on in the same manner.

The answer given above by Buildersmate is a comprehensive answer to your options should you wish to use it as 'habitable' space, but, as you stated, this is a 'bonus' area and I shouldn't bother too much about the impact it will have on your living there.

[buildersmate]

Agree with monkeyeyes - you should value the property on the basis that the loft room is merely storage space - nothing more.
You may be able to get an indemnity policy but it would cover you against Building Control deciding to take retrospective action and demand you modify to meet building regs. If you are contemplating going down this route, go no-one near Building Control as the insurer will (rightly) refuse to insure you - on the grounds that you tipped them off there is a problem.
The conversion definitely needed BC approval - no ifs or buts. Conservatories are different - unless bigger than 30 sq. m in area, they do not normally count as habitable rooms so it is correct that they do not need BR approval.

[jenniprice]

You don't normally need Planning for a loft conversion. Only if Dormer window's were put in, like builders mate said.

Otherwise you only need Building regs. You can put in for retropescitve building regs, but like others say you need fire doors.etc for it to pass.

Speak to your local council to see if there is history of them applying for it.
Maybe they applied but never got a completion certificate to say up top standard.

Also if the agent aren't advertising it as another room, then they have valued it as storage space, so doubt you'll get much off asking price.