Damage To Flat Below

[Texman]

I was planning to retire shortly from my warehouse job and I moved into some shared accommodation, which was just meant as a temporary move before I move into a single flat when it comes available. Not long after moving into the shared accommodation I accidentally caused some water damage which then leaked into a room in the flat below.

Some students are sharing below and the water leak I caused damaged some of their property. One student had her MacBook damaged beyond repair as well as some of her furniture. It also damaged an iPad and an electronic keyboard belonging to the other student. She also had some clothes that were ruined. They also had to temporarily move out while the damage to the flat was repaired.

I had tenants insurance but had not relalised it was not valid for shared accommodation and my claim for the damage was denied. The students below had no insurance at all. I do accept that it was my negligence that caused the damage, but the students asked for £5000 for their damaged property, the damage put together could total up to be expensive but I think £5000 may be a bit excessive. They say they have receipts to back it up and will be suing me in the small claims court for the full amount.

If I have to pay for all of this, it could well mess up my retirement plan. I know the students would need to show evidence of their damage, but even if they can, I wondered as they were uninsured, should they be suing me?

[Prudie]

You sound really decent, too decent in fact. I agree with corbyloon, be tough and demand proof. Seems rather convenient that all that stuff got damaged, especially query the expensive clothes. What happened, were they completed flooded or did a ceiling collapse?

[Flonska]

Have you inspected the flat below to see exactly where the damage occurred and the extent of it to consider whether or not the claim made in respect of the contents is reasonable and/or accurate?

[hc4361]

The students have a duty to minimise the cost of the claim and not profit.
I suggest you offer to pay to clean the damaged clothes unless it is clear they are beyond cleaning.
Are they also claiming for flooring, furniture, light fittings etc?

[Texman]

Thank you prudie, I have seen the the flat and the damaged equipment, the electrical equipment had been left on the floor and the clothes were on a bed. It was a washing machine pipe that had leaked through after I had done a quick repair job on the washer. The students claim they have receipts or proof of purchase for what was damaged but I won't pay them a penny until they show me the receipts. I am really annoyed with myself for screwing up with my insurance as I would normally have just put a situation like this in their hands.

[Texman]

hc4361, I got the feeling from the start that the students may be trying to get more out of me than they put in! The clothes I saw looked like if hey could be professionally cleaned they should be OK. Though the student they belong to is a girl, me being a man, I would have no issue with wearing damaged clothing again if they were professionally cleaned and looked OK, females may possibly take a different view and feel they would not want to wear something that had been drenched in dirty water! Even if that is what she is thinking, I don't know if it gives her the right to demand the cost of replacing everything.

[Prudie]

Have you no-one professional to advise you? A trip to citizen's advice might help or even half an hour with a solicitor might be worth the money in the long run. Yes the students deserve recompense for their losses but it's very common to bump up these kind of claims.

[hc4361]

If they were claiming from the insurance company (either yours or theirs) it is feasible that they would only get the cost of cleaning re the clothes

[Bigbad]

I agree that you sound like a decent person.
If the clothes were on a bed, are they claiming for the bed too?
That must have got wet as well.

[AuntLydia]

I would call their bluff. Tell them you think the best thing to do is for them to take the matter to the small claims court. Just because it goes to court and just because you claim liability does not mean they will get the full amount they think they are due. They will have to provide watertight evidence of their loss including proof none of the items can be repaired. They will only get full compensation for items they can prove are damaged beyond repair or can't be fixed. You will only be liable for repair or cleaning costs and items with proof of purchase and written proof they can't be repaired.

Court is not scary and the magistrate will realise you are an honest person. If you have to set up a payment plan you will NOT get a CCJ I know this from personal experience. I was locked out of my house while renting and a neighbour (kindly) broke the door while opening it. The landlord claimed the door was worth £900 and when I would not pay took me to court. I found an exact door on a website with a cost of £250 and got a written quote from someone to fit it. I took paperwork to court, admitted liability and the judgement was I paid for £250 for the door and £75 to fix it. I paid in two installments and did not get a CCJ.

[EDDIE51]

From what you say about the damage £5000 seems low to me.
The MacBook ,iPad & keyboard will be over £3000. Then they had to move out while their flat was repaired , so there will be their additional rent cost to cover. I would just pay up. If they go to court there will be the court costs (at least £150) added as well as the damage.
I know from personal expierience that a county court DOES NOT require the original receipts. They realise that they are often not available. Sensible estimates are accepted. All in all I think going to court will end up costing you a LOT more.

[AuntLydia]

On the Small Claims Track, parties are expected to bear their own costs, even if they pursue a successful claim. The OP is not defending his liability and is not pursuing a counterclaim so the costs will be minimal and may save him £100's if not 1000's. If he starts making out of court settlements the students could still sue him further down the line and he could be even more out of pocket. Do it legally.

[Texman]

Thanks for all of that information AuntLydia, I wasn't sure whether I would still get a CCJ if I pay what is agreed in court but from your own experience it seems not. I had heard that a small claims court was not a scary place and really just somewhere more like an office where a decision is given. Yes I am admitting liability and there is no question of liability, more just the actual amount being claimed.

I have spoken to both of these girls a few times about it, whilst they are very annoyed with me, they have discussed it in an amicable manner. Both girls made it clear that they would prefer to settle this by going through proper legal channels and to sue me for damages. With it being £5000, I think they feel I'll miss payments and likely stop paying which is understandable.

You also make a good point that if I were to start making out of court settlements, the students could possibly still try suing me further down the line and I then end up being further out of pocket not to mention lots of hassle.

Obviously damages have been done and these girls need to be compensated, I am waiting to see all of their proof of purchase but possibly on this occasion court might be the right way to settle this.

[Texman]

The bed was damaged bigbad, but could still be usable after some cleaning, they are claiming for that with damaged furniture.

[Bigbad]

Thanks Texman.
I had a water damage claim last year (mice chewed through the pipes to the cold water tank in the loft. It dripped until the ceiling could take no more, and collapsed!
There was a bed directly under the leak, so that’s what made me ask).
So are you being held liable for the furniture too?
I think you’ve been given some sound advice on here regards checking and not being duped into being ripped off.
Hope it all goes well, and perhaps you could give us an update in the future.

[Texman]

Sorry to hear about your water damage bigbad, I hope everything is now resolved. The student girls are claiming for damaged furniture as well as the electrical equipment, clothing and for their accommodation cost when they moved out so it will all amount up.

I can understand their annoyance as they are a totally innocent party, they have had equipment damaged which they now can't use and I've had to tell them that I can't pay them for this loss upfront. I think everyone would would be annoyed to some extent!

Yes I think some very good advice has been given, there have been some different opinions but that is to be expected. This does seem like a good site where if someone posts a question, other members do try and offer honest advice. I can certainly post an update when I know some more.

I might like to ask a hypothetical question in that I would just be interested to know if they were on the receiving end of damage like this, who would want to possibly take a chance on settling out of court with someone they don't know, or would they prefer to do this through a proper legal channel and just sue me for the cost of the damage.

[gingejbee]

Has anybody had the same thoughts as me.....stuff happens, accidents happen, this wasn't a deliberate act on your part. It was their fault they had no insurance and yet you're expected to pay for their shortsightedness.

[hc4361]

Court should always be a last resort. Even if they were to win there is no guarantee they would get their money and would have to incur more costs such as bailiffs.

If I were the claimant I would come to a private arrangement in writing, properly signed by all parties.
If the payment failed to materialise in full or part I would then take it to Small Claims' Court unless I absolutely knew there was no way you would ever be able to pay. You can't get blood out of a stone even if you crush it, after all

[Bigbad]

Yep.
Sorted. Sold it. Moved out!
Was up for sale at the time, but had to put off viewings for a few weeks.

I think I would be wary of settling without some kind of guarantee.

You can get some very good answers on here, unfortunately, you can also get judgemental and unpleasant answers to genuine questions.

Heaven forbid if you have a different opinion to some folks, that’s when the name-calling can start.
Easy to be rude when you have anonymity to hide behind!
I think you got lucky with this thread.
All the best.

[hc4361]

Another thought - if they are claiming for the bed, carpet or any other furniture, fixtures and fittings make sure they own them. Highly likely those sort of things are owned by the landlord who will claim from his own landlord's insurance.

[Texman]

Very interesting thoughts ginegbee. Yes it was accidental, but it is negligence. Of course them not having any insurance and me screwing up on mine is the really big spanner in the works with this.

Of course it would be ideal if everyone had the same thoughts as you, for me, even if they had accepted that they should have been insured and offered to go halves with me on the damage I would have accepted that straight away. However some would probably say of course I would accept it as it then gets me out of paying for half of the damage I caused. I can see where your thought is coming from but I doubt that many others will think the same.