ChatterBank2 mins ago
indemnity policy for conservatory
I am buying a house and just found out the conservatory has not applied for planning permission and building regulation which are required.
Right now the vendor is going to get indemnity policy. They said an indemnity policy will protect us if local authority has to remove the conservatory in future. However someone tells me the policy is invalid because we have spoken to the council and the council is already aware the conservatory was built without approval of planning permission & building regulation.
Is this the case?
I would be very much grateful if you could advise me. I suppose to exchange of contracts this Friday 29 Sept 06 and my solicitor just want to close the file ASAP and get his monies and run.
Right now the vendor is going to get indemnity policy. They said an indemnity policy will protect us if local authority has to remove the conservatory in future. However someone tells me the policy is invalid because we have spoken to the council and the council is already aware the conservatory was built without approval of planning permission & building regulation.
Is this the case?
I would be very much grateful if you could advise me. I suppose to exchange of contracts this Friday 29 Sept 06 and my solicitor just want to close the file ASAP and get his monies and run.
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Do you know when the conservatory was built (may be after limitation period) and whether is fell within any permitted development rights?
Indemnity policies are not the solution many people think they are, the policy wording should always be considered very carefully.
It also depends on your definition of protection, it is likely it will just provide an indemnity fund should the council decide to take enforcement action.
This could still result in you having to tear the conservatory down and impact on the value and enjoyment of your property as well as you being responsible for the costs of removing the conservatory and then having to rectify the damage and appearance.
Approaches to third parties, especially the council, usually invalidate such policies and there is usually a clause in the policy wording relating to this.
The policy wording should be checked with your solicitor carefully, make them advise you on the policy wording (and advise you of the indemnity limit value wise) and what it means.
If they are not forthcoming ask for a copy of the policy and ring the indemnity insurers yourself and ask them to explain it along with any ramifications of the council being aware of the situation. Make a written note and advise your solicitor.
Indemnity policies are not the solution many people think they are, the policy wording should always be considered very carefully.
It also depends on your definition of protection, it is likely it will just provide an indemnity fund should the council decide to take enforcement action.
This could still result in you having to tear the conservatory down and impact on the value and enjoyment of your property as well as you being responsible for the costs of removing the conservatory and then having to rectify the damage and appearance.
Approaches to third parties, especially the council, usually invalidate such policies and there is usually a clause in the policy wording relating to this.
The policy wording should be checked with your solicitor carefully, make them advise you on the policy wording (and advise you of the indemnity limit value wise) and what it means.
If they are not forthcoming ask for a copy of the policy and ring the indemnity insurers yourself and ask them to explain it along with any ramifications of the council being aware of the situation. Make a written note and advise your solicitor.
You could also e.mail [email protected] (or phone them on 01603 823293) and ask them if they could e.mail/fax you with a specimin policly wording for a defective title indemnity policy for lack of planning and building regulations consent for a residential property for an indemnity value of �(purchase price). This may give you an idea but is NO substitute for seeing the actual policy wording.
If you are getting a mortgage is may also be an issue that your lender would be concerned about as it could impact ont he value of your security. Check with your solicitor whether he has dealt with this urgently so that it does have any impact on being able to draw down funds for completion as once you exchange you are legally bound to purchase the property and it could cause all kinds of problems.
If you are having problems with your solicitor then take the matter up with the complaints handler who should be detailed in the first letter you got which we refer to as a client care/Rule 15 letter and ask for a response as a matter of urgency due to the timescales involved in your transaction.
If you have any further problems try here...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/ redressscheme.law.
You should not authorise exchange until you are properly advised and satisfied.
If you are getting a mortgage is may also be an issue that your lender would be concerned about as it could impact ont he value of your security. Check with your solicitor whether he has dealt with this urgently so that it does have any impact on being able to draw down funds for completion as once you exchange you are legally bound to purchase the property and it could cause all kinds of problems.
If you are having problems with your solicitor then take the matter up with the complaints handler who should be detailed in the first letter you got which we refer to as a client care/Rule 15 letter and ask for a response as a matter of urgency due to the timescales involved in your transaction.
If you have any further problems try here...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/ redressscheme.law.
You should not authorise exchange until you are properly advised and satisfied.
thanks so much for your advice, Jeena, I will definitely try to speak to fee earner tomorrow, if not, then try to speak to her dept head. I am only able to speak to fee earner twice so far, first time was for quote.
The conservatory was built in 2002.
I managed to download a policy outline from a ??? insurance and I think the indemnity policy which is proposed by the vendor is going to be invalid because the conucil is already aware the situitation. It is a bleach of condition. And the outline stated that it's unlikely I can get another indemnity policy somewhere else? It this the case?
Should I exchange the contracts this if the vendor is able to get certificate of lawful usage. Or is there anything I can do to safeguard ourselves (as a buyer)?
Thanks
The conservatory was built in 2002.
I managed to download a policy outline from a ??? insurance and I think the indemnity policy which is proposed by the vendor is going to be invalid because the conucil is already aware the situitation. It is a bleach of condition. And the outline stated that it's unlikely I can get another indemnity policy somewhere else? It this the case?
Should I exchange the contracts this if the vendor is able to get certificate of lawful usage. Or is there anything I can do to safeguard ourselves (as a buyer)?
Thanks
Try here for law society and click on complaints on the right hand side...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/home.law.
If it was built in 2002 there could definitely be a problem. have you not had a report on title or anything? A copy of your local search may shed some light on the planning situation just in case and may give further hints as to whether there may be any enforcement action by the council eg previous refusals.
I don't think a CLU is the way to go, I'd say determining if it fell within permitted development rights or obtaining retrospective planning consent would be more appropriate.
Try here...http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1090430785820.html for details of planning aid who may be able to give you some free advice. The planning portal it is on is also full of good general info...http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/.
It may be possible to exchange conditionally depending on when you want to complete eg exchange is conditional upon the seller obtaining, at their cost, official written confirmation that the works were within permitted development rights or obtaining restrospective planning consent.
Alternatively you could go for an allowance on completion (ie monies knocked off) in respect of you obtaining the same (be very careful how the allowance is calculated!).
Please note that any reduction in purchase price (mortgage offer usually specifies by how much) MUST be disclosed to the lender as it can affect their calculations...and is mortgage fraud!
Conditional exchanges need to be dealt with very carefully and preferably by someone with experience in that area.
If it was built in 2002 there could definitely be a problem. have you not had a report on title or anything? A copy of your local search may shed some light on the planning situation just in case and may give further hints as to whether there may be any enforcement action by the council eg previous refusals.
I don't think a CLU is the way to go, I'd say determining if it fell within permitted development rights or obtaining retrospective planning consent would be more appropriate.
Try here...http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1090430785820.html for details of planning aid who may be able to give you some free advice. The planning portal it is on is also full of good general info...http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/.
It may be possible to exchange conditionally depending on when you want to complete eg exchange is conditional upon the seller obtaining, at their cost, official written confirmation that the works were within permitted development rights or obtaining restrospective planning consent.
Alternatively you could go for an allowance on completion (ie monies knocked off) in respect of you obtaining the same (be very careful how the allowance is calculated!).
Please note that any reduction in purchase price (mortgage offer usually specifies by how much) MUST be disclosed to the lender as it can affect their calculations...and is mortgage fraud!
Conditional exchanges need to be dealt with very carefully and preferably by someone with experience in that area.
Oh and if you've been refused an indemnity policy by one it is very likely all will as they will work on the same underwriting considerations. You should divulge if you've been turned down for insurance previously.
Where the council and planning are involved it is likely that they won't cover it or it would be invalidated.
Where the council and planning are involved it is likely that they won't cover it or it would be invalidated.
No worries :) I'll keep and eye on the thread or you could post a new one if you need any more advice.
Just be careful in case the seller decides to go look for another buyer but at the same time don't be bullied into buying a property unless you're full advised on the issues which may arise and what it may mean for you.
Good luck and let me know how you get on!
Just be careful in case the seller decides to go look for another buyer but at the same time don't be bullied into buying a property unless you're full advised on the issues which may arise and what it may mean for you.
Good luck and let me know how you get on!
hi jenna, it's a long day. anyway, we've spoken to council this morning and they confirmed that if the conservatory was built 4 years ago, we can either get an non-enforcement letter or certificate of lawful development. the lady from the council said retrospective planning is only applied for a conservatory which is less than 4 years ago. She also said if she would rather go for certificate of lawful development.
Then the vendor phones us and after a number of phone conversation. he agrees to apply for certificate of lawful developement (that is the route we decided to go for) Jenna, do you think we make the right decision, is there anything else we should ask from the vendor? we already told the vendor that an indemnity policy is invalid in this case.
Then the vendor phones us and after a number of phone conversation. he agrees to apply for certificate of lawful developement (that is the route we decided to go for) Jenna, do you think we make the right decision, is there anything else we should ask from the vendor? we already told the vendor that an indemnity policy is invalid in this case.
Sounds good although the final advice should come from your solicitor who has had the benefit of seeing the whole file and all the docs.
Hopefully if he gets the relevant certificate (it was just use i was concerned over rather than development) at his own cost there shouldn't be a problem (just check that there aren't any other works without planning etc...lurking in the background).
Is he doing this prior to exchange?
is your property freehold or leasehold?
Hopefully if he gets the relevant certificate (it was just use i was concerned over rather than development) at his own cost there shouldn't be a problem (just check that there aren't any other works without planning etc...lurking in the background).
Is he doing this prior to exchange?
is your property freehold or leasehold?
Oh and make sure you get full report on title, i'd be tempted to ask for copies of all the docs too (official copies and plans, any title documents, searches etc...) and make sure you have seen the Seller's Property Information Form and Fixtures Fittings and Contents Form so you can query anything you're not sure about.
it's freehold property and the vendor will pay for the costs of cert of lawful development
we have got FFC, seller property information and report on title.. what make me laugh is report on title stating that ''we have got good title and should have no problem in selling the house in the future". our solicitor fails to spot the conservatory was built without planning permission. I actually found out from the council that the conservatory requires planning permssion.
jenna, you mentioned about lendor, should i contact my lendor or should my solicitor to inform the lendor about conservatory solution?
we have got FFC, seller property information and report on title.. what make me laugh is report on title stating that ''we have got good title and should have no problem in selling the house in the future". our solicitor fails to spot the conservatory was built without planning permission. I actually found out from the council that the conservatory requires planning permssion.
jenna, you mentioned about lendor, should i contact my lendor or should my solicitor to inform the lendor about conservatory solution?
oh, jenna, i've just checked and our solicitor has already banked our cheque for deposit. As a buyer, do we have right to ask our solicitor to return the deposit to us? (at no cost)? I read their teams & condition it seems they will charge us if we want our monies back, does it apply to our case? because we are not terminating the contract and it has just been postoned due to the lack of papers for conservatory.
and becasue it takes up to 8 weeks for the vendor to apply for cert of lawful developement and we are losing interest from the deposit monies, thanks
and becasue it takes up to 8 weeks for the vendor to apply for cert of lawful developement and we are losing interest from the deposit monies, thanks
I'd take the conservatory issue up with the complaints partner, may get you a bit off your bill to compensate for the delay and inconvenience caused. If they are unwilling to look into the issue then you could suggest that you will refer it to the Law Society Customer Complaints Service for them to advise.
As regards your lender, your solicitor should do this and mke sure they've checked everything is fine. They may just have to sign the certificate of title (which is sent to the lender when requeting mortgage funds) stating they are satisfied with the title (so the lender can go after them if there's a prolem).
They may have to report it to the lender though. You could check the CML guidelines for your lender here...http://www.cml.org.uk/handbook/frontpage.aspx. Click on England & Wales and select your lender and check out Part 2.
As for your deposit if you are not going to use the money you could see if they could put it in their deposit account for you and account to you for any interest (check the rate) or they can send it back to your instruction.
if they say there is a fee, ask what for. If they say it's a TT fee (telegraphic transfer), usually about �30 plus VAT, state that they could send it by BACS rather than CHAPS. This takes 3 days (CHAPS is that day) but is free.
I'd state that the least they could do is to send it by CHAPS without charging you as they caused the delay.
If it's an admin fee for the work involved i would suggest the same reponse.
As regards your lender, your solicitor should do this and mke sure they've checked everything is fine. They may just have to sign the certificate of title (which is sent to the lender when requeting mortgage funds) stating they are satisfied with the title (so the lender can go after them if there's a prolem).
They may have to report it to the lender though. You could check the CML guidelines for your lender here...http://www.cml.org.uk/handbook/frontpage.aspx. Click on England & Wales and select your lender and check out Part 2.
As for your deposit if you are not going to use the money you could see if they could put it in their deposit account for you and account to you for any interest (check the rate) or they can send it back to your instruction.
if they say there is a fee, ask what for. If they say it's a TT fee (telegraphic transfer), usually about �30 plus VAT, state that they could send it by BACS rather than CHAPS. This takes 3 days (CHAPS is that day) but is free.
I'd state that the least they could do is to send it by CHAPS without charging you as they caused the delay.
If it's an admin fee for the work involved i would suggest the same reponse.
If that link doesn't work try this..http://www.cml.org.uk/handbook/
we have tried to speak to fee earner and complant handler today. and again, load of excuses, fee earner has got sore throat and complaint handler is out of town, every time we want to speak to them, in the end it's their conveying assistant to pick up the phone, who is not helpful, not friendly and sometime she's quite rude. any advice?
That's not good. Make a note of all this and try and get names of who you spoke to etc...and keep all correspondence.
Are they solicitors or licenced conveyancers? if solicitors (you can check here...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/ findasolicitor.law) then speak to the Law Society Customer Complaints Service.
Details here...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/redressscheme.law.
It is likely they will ask if you have put your complaint to them in writing.
It may be an idea to do this is any event, address it to the senior partner and i'd suggest faxing it to the main number you can find on the solicitor firm search above.
Quote your reference number and include all releavant details eg...
Are they solicitors or licenced conveyancers? if solicitors (you can check here...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/ findasolicitor.law) then speak to the Law Society Customer Complaints Service.
Details here...http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/redressscheme.law.
It is likely they will ask if you have put your complaint to them in writing.
It may be an idea to do this is any event, address it to the senior partner and i'd suggest faxing it to the main number you can find on the solicitor firm search above.
Quote your reference number and include all releavant details eg...
Something like this...
For the Urgent Attention of the Senior Partner
Complaint re Service in relation to my purchase of(Property Address)
Your ref: (their reference)
I instructed your firm in the above matter on the (date).
I have the following issues realting to the conduct of the matter:
1. xxx
2. xxx
etc...
I have tried to contact the person dealing with my matter on a day to day basis, (name) in order to discuss the matter in general (details of how and when), and, in particular the issues concerning (issues)(details of how and when) , however, (details issues with contact).
As per the client care letter forwarded to me on the (date), I note that the complaints handler is (name) and I have tried to contact them (details of how and when), however, (details issues with contact).
I would be grateful for a written response within 10 working days of the date of this addressing the above issues and outlining the steps which will be taken to resolve the same and provide a form of redress.
if i have not received a satisfactory response within this time I will copy this letter to the Law Society Customer Complaints Service and take their advice accordingly. I would hope that we can resolve this matter between ourselves and there will be no need for following this course of action.
If you wish to speak to me by telephone or in person to discuss this you can contact me (contact details).
I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible in anticipation of bringing the matter to a satisfactory conclusion.
Yours sincerely....
NB 10 working days is 2 weeks to give a reasonable amount of time, Law Society suggests 28!
For the Urgent Attention of the Senior Partner
Complaint re Service in relation to my purchase of(Property Address)
Your ref: (their reference)
I instructed your firm in the above matter on the (date).
I have the following issues realting to the conduct of the matter:
1. xxx
2. xxx
etc...
I have tried to contact the person dealing with my matter on a day to day basis, (name) in order to discuss the matter in general (details of how and when), and, in particular the issues concerning (issues)(details of how and when) , however, (details issues with contact).
As per the client care letter forwarded to me on the (date), I note that the complaints handler is (name) and I have tried to contact them (details of how and when), however, (details issues with contact).
I would be grateful for a written response within 10 working days of the date of this addressing the above issues and outlining the steps which will be taken to resolve the same and provide a form of redress.
if i have not received a satisfactory response within this time I will copy this letter to the Law Society Customer Complaints Service and take their advice accordingly. I would hope that we can resolve this matter between ourselves and there will be no need for following this course of action.
If you wish to speak to me by telephone or in person to discuss this you can contact me (contact details).
I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible in anticipation of bringing the matter to a satisfactory conclusion.
Yours sincerely....
NB 10 working days is 2 weeks to give a reasonable amount of time, Law Society suggests 28!
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