Dental and cancer treatment!

[Goodsoulette]

My nan went to the dentist and needed new dentures, they cost her 700 quid. Her dentist doesn't offer them on the NHS, yet she is 89 and on a state pension. Fortunately she has squirreled away a couple of quid each week for her whole life and was able to pay for it .

This isn't the 50s and dentists said many years ago that it wasn't right that they were having to pull out teeth because it was cheaper. Another billion pounds into dentistry and everyone could have NHS treatment.

I was horrified to find out that this is stemming into to cancer treatment, when i found out my mum's colleagues, who has cancer, cannot afford the drugs she needs.To get them she needs to gather together one million signatures. A million. You cannot even buy the drugs privately and get NHS treatment, its NHS or totally private. They proposed a mix of the two to the department of health but they said no. What is going on? DO you think we should pay into private health insurance and leave the free care to the really poor? It might satisfy some in that those who are extremely overweight, smoke or drink, or take illegal drugs would have to pay a higher rate of insurance!

On another point where the money could possibly come from, bottle fed babies that are admitted to hospital with gastroentiritis cost the NHS over 1 billion every year. About time for the government to explain the benefits of breatfeeding I think. This isn't to say that bottle feeding doesnt have its place but if more people breast fed a lot of childhood illnesses wouldnt happen.

[Skreecheeboy]

Are you asking us if we want to sign the petition? I will if you do! We shouldn't pay into private insurance and smokers already pay more.

[Pippa68]

I totally agree with you Goodsoulette. The state of dentistry and the NHS is appalling.

Nobody should have to walk around with rotting teeth in this day and age. Are we in a third world country or what?

Likewise access to drugs needed for diseases. It beggars belief.

I also agree with you regarding breastfeeding. I also understand that the choice has to be there..and despite the fact I don't understand a womans logic when she says she finds the idea of breastfeeding disgusting, I am not a militant breastfeeder ;o) the education and encouragement needs to be there.

[Goodsoulette]

My question was do you think we should pay into into private health insurance? in place of the Nhs.

[redcrx]

Id happily sign a petition to help get the cancer drugs for your mums friend. But as Im a mother of a bottle fed baby would you accept my signature? :)

Breast fed babies get illnesses too you know, Including gastroenteritis!

[Pippa68]

I don't think we SHOULD but will end up having to pay into private health insurance. The only problem will be clarifying who is poor and who isn't.

I already know of quite a few people who already do it. My ex mother in law signed up privately after having to wait over a year for what was going to be a life saving operation. She was seen within days...and luckily she can afford it.

Redcrx, I understand your point about illnesses and breast/bottle feeding. My point about education is regarding both ways of feeding. So many mothers aren't sure how to measure the formula and aren't so au fait with sterilising bottles...and these groups tend to be in the 'breast feeding is disgusting' category rather than the ones who have tried breastfeeding and were not successful. As I said, education & encouragement are needed.

[Skreecheeboy]

Breastfeeding makes the child healthier because they get passed on antibodies from the mother. Makes sense to give it a go if you ask me.

[Octavius]

Well you lost my signature when you admonished several stereotypes to which I know people who belong.

Yes, the NHS is in a bit of a tizz. But, how are we to know that your friend�s cancer is not caused by smoking? Perhaps they have lead a criminal life or not kept their weight down to the prescribed levels?

The NHS is for everyone, perhaps on the flipside of what you are saying it should be for only people who contribute regularly enough to it that get the benefit? If you are inferring one rule for some (poor non-smoking, breastfeeding, underweight, tea-total, drug free OAPs) then conversely it could be argued for the other.

[Goodsoulette]

I'm not suggesting that they don't but in comparison it pales, and I did say bottle feeding has its place but there is no denying that breast fed babies have a better start, better immune systems, less likely to be obese, and lets face it there is no fish heads in breast milk. I was just looking to see where we kind find a spare million.

From the world health organisation....

"Bottle-fed infants raised by educated women in clean environments, to this day, have significantly greater rates of illness and even death... In a study that analyzed hospitalization patterns for a homogeneous, middle-class, white American population, bottle-fed infants were fourteen times more likely to be hospitalized than breastfed infants"

Formula milk contains an average of 10 to 23 times as much iron as the maximum in mother's milk. I take it we all know what iron does to our bodies?

Im really not slamming mothers that dont do it. Its the government that need to promote this.

[mrs_overall]

I agree with the principle of the NHS but the actual practice of it is going to the dogs. I personally would prefer to opt out of using the NHS (I have numerous horror stories of my own but I won't bore you with them) and pay for private health insurance for myself and my family. However, I know that this would be an option that millions of people would not be able to afford. My particular bugbears are the current situation with the lack of NHS dentists, the rationing of drugs, mixed sex wards (my mum died in one), the closure of local units, the zillions sqandered on useless computer systems, Patricia Hewitt (what a waste of space she is), the number of needless deaths from MRSA & C.Diff., the filth in some hospitals........sorry, this is turning into a full blown rant.
I'll go and lie down in a darkened room now.

[Goodsoulette]

Octavius I did say it might satisfy some, not me, as I hear all the time, smokers shouldn't get free treatment, fat people shouldn't get free treatment. I smoke and if went to a point where I would have to pay for my treatment I would expect my insurance to be higher than those who didnt.

Im not trying to get signatures.... I dont know her, it was a conversation on the phone that made me think of this. If she had been in America and was fully covered my medical insurance I would have thought this would not be an issue for her.

[Octavius]

So as I understand it, my wife is a burden to the NHS so we should pay for private healthcare for our child who is bottle fed?

Considering I pay the equivalent of a small nation�s GDP into Tax & NI every year, do you think this is entirely fair?

[Goodsoulette]

look, Im not saying this is what should happen, you are seeing an argument that I'm not making.
I am saying SHOULD it go to private health care? Not I think it SHOULD go to private care? Would health insurance benefit more?Im not saying those who are fat should only get treatment privately, I just assume that if you went to get insured they would ask you if you smoke and were overweight etc, and up goes your cost because you are higher risk of illness. Im saying SHOULD they take the NHS away and replace it with private treatment, if people who cant get treated on the NHS because they wont provide treatment for select illnesses! I assume tax would be reduced if the NHS was no longer around. I am sure this it probably wouldn't happen work in practice.

It's going to take a couple of billion to provide full dental treatment and cancer treatment for those that need it but cannot get. Where is it going to come from? What if your wife needs 25,000 plus of cancer treatment? I wouldn't say she didn't deserve it because she was overweight or a smoker. If you didn't have that money would health insurance have been better in hindsight.

[Octavius]

So presuming my (and millions of others in the UK) Tax & NI contributions were reduced in order to fund private healthcare for me and my family, where would the financial contributions for the NHS to enable the poor (etc) to get free healthcare come from?

If we all went private, would we still be expected to pay the full amount into NHS? This would seem the only way free healthcare could be an option. Then we would have a 2-tier system of not enough funds, too much tax and some form of point scoring for the most deserving to get treated fo free. Anyone outside of this system - not earning enough to pay both funds (NHS & private) but earning too much to get free health care - would be left out in the cold and damp of a dark hospital car park.

[Goodsoulette]

and I believe this situation happens in America. So someone has to come up with a full proof scheme of getting everyone treatment. It doesn't seem right to me that there are drugs out there but patients cant have them. Maybe the pharmaceutical companies do out price themselves. I dont know what cost goes into making them though.

So where should the billions that are needed to make the NHS work going to appear from? I could probably afford to pay into private healthcare but if I got diagnosed with cancer tomorrow and to not die I needed 25,000 I would royally F**ked.

[Octavius]

It�s not really that simple. Even with private healthcare or PMI, cancer treatment is not covered by even the largest PMI providers. The insured would need to out take an additional indemnity specifically for Cancer Cover, whether they smoked, were obese, took street drugs, were indetifiably a higher risk or not.

And remember with PMI illnesses can only be treated under the indemnity provided the symptoms were not present within 1 year prior to taking out the insurance.

[Reverandfunk]

The NHS needs to be totally restructured. When the idea was conceived in the late 40's would people have gone to the hospital with a splinter in their finger? No

People go to casualty for the silliest things, hence at my local A & E there is usually a four hour wait. When people check in at A & E why aren't they just sent home??? Restructure how GP's work as well so you cant book appointments a week in advance. I know it's only part of the answer but it aint exactly rocket science.

[Octavius]

Notwithstanding my answer above, I believe that your Nan would also need separate insurance for her gnashers as well, as many PMI�s don�t cover �cosmetic dentistry� and similar to your point above, should people who don�t look after their teeth properly or have too many sweets/acid fruits/drinks etc really get free dental care??

The reason they stopped doing advanced bookings at GP�s were:
1. People complained that they couldn�t get an appointment on the day as last week they didn�t know they were going to be ill today, and
2. Those that pre-booked appointments often didn�t turn up, so person at no.1 still lost out.

[Goodsoulette]

Octavius, it wasnt my point. I think everyone should be able to get totally free nhs treatment. To quote myself "DO you think we should pay into private health insurance and leave the free care to the really poor? It might satisfy some in that those who are extremely overweight, smoke or drink, or take illegal drugs would have to pay a higher rate of insurance!"

However I am sure you will see what you want in that again, by now it has probably changed to, if you smoke save the nhs money and out them down.


Octavius if you have no teeth, is that still cosmetic dentistry? A genuine question!

[Octavius]

Having no teeth has nothing to do with cosmetic dentistry, but the provision of dentures does.

I did take your point and I tried to answer several times above. If we all went private, then who pays for the poor peoples free health care?

By the way, my wife and I don�t smoke, we are not overweight, we don�t drink much alcohol and we never take illegal drugs. My daughter however is bottle fed, so I guess she will have to fend for herself under your proposed regime?