ChatterBank0 min ago
Employment Question.
21 Answers
Take one friend of mine - he runs a small manufacturing company, along with his marketing and sales. Turnover about 3/4 a mill. Employees approximately 10 and can expand on demand.
Rightly or wrongly no contracts.......so deemed contracts instead.
Take their production manager, and a row last Thursday that has been brewing, the prod manager having been overtly aggressive in his manner with several of the staff. Also has tended to do his own thing when it comes to order prioritisation etc. No formal warnings that I an aware of but a number of chiding sessions.
Anyway, this time, the friend leaves specific instructions on how to handle a number of orders that they have in, one of them being for a client who owes them over £3k, that one, rightly, going to the back of the queue until he coughs up.
So what does the production manager do but counter the instructions (witnessed by the way), moves it all the way up and its shipped before the Owner knows.
He's called in, there's a bit of a verbal set-to over this, and his attitude. The production manager storms out and is not seen on Friday (to the delight of the factory staff).
My advice over the w.end was to give him a formal warning in writing.
He doesn't show yesterday or today.
Is this an acceptable grounds for sending him his p45 along with a cheque for outstanding wages, the wages due tomorrow?
Many thanks.
Rightly or wrongly no contracts.......so deemed contracts instead.
Take their production manager, and a row last Thursday that has been brewing, the prod manager having been overtly aggressive in his manner with several of the staff. Also has tended to do his own thing when it comes to order prioritisation etc. No formal warnings that I an aware of but a number of chiding sessions.
Anyway, this time, the friend leaves specific instructions on how to handle a number of orders that they have in, one of them being for a client who owes them over £3k, that one, rightly, going to the back of the queue until he coughs up.
So what does the production manager do but counter the instructions (witnessed by the way), moves it all the way up and its shipped before the Owner knows.
He's called in, there's a bit of a verbal set-to over this, and his attitude. The production manager storms out and is not seen on Friday (to the delight of the factory staff).
My advice over the w.end was to give him a formal warning in writing.
He doesn't show yesterday or today.
Is this an acceptable grounds for sending him his p45 along with a cheque for outstanding wages, the wages due tomorrow?
Many thanks.
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Some less rash advice than I originally gave
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Still about the same as you suggested, Zac! Perhaps a little more reservation in it, but certainly it will include the first formal warning and a request for what the hell is going on/doctor's note.....and I am recommending hand delivery - probably by me, being neutral in the barney but also including his wages. His leave etc we shall calculate and pay if he has genuinely walked out.......
Thanks though and to all of you.
Be a sole employer is my advice - President and Bottle Washer all in one; it makes life easier!
Thanks though and to all of you.
Be a sole employer is my advice - President and Bottle Washer all in one; it makes life easier!
ohhh..... one of the dangers of not having proper contracts of employment, disciplinary policy, etc.....
He needs to be very careful that the prod manager doesn't counter the P45 with a claim for unfair dismissal. Your pal could have a word with ACAS, always a good place to start, to be on the safe side.
He needs to be very careful that the prod manager doesn't counter the P45 with a claim for unfair dismissal. Your pal could have a word with ACAS, always a good place to start, to be on the safe side.
boxie, I have already counselled him not to waive the p45 around or mention that at this stage - a letter outlining the formal warning for his disobedience last week, a clause as well on the need to improve the handling of staff, then the request for information as to intended date of return or a doctors note before Friday am - or if, de facto, a walk-out on his part a confirmation in writing so that his outstanding wages and leave payments can be settled and paper-work transferred. Perhaps a clause to cover the procedure if he doesn't reply.....
Call to Acas - keep it simple and focus on the walk out for the moment. Ask if he has resigned, and then include what his leave etc is worth and that the Owner will settle those. Pay his wages with the letter. Or is he coming back or a Doctors note before Friday.
The disciplinary side keep to whether he comes back and, if he does, then raise an enquiry to behaviour and absence leading to a formal warning. If he doesn't appear/resigns, then this stage is redundant.
Thanks all. No doubt it shall be me who puts the letter together!
The disciplinary side keep to whether he comes back and, if he does, then raise an enquiry to behaviour and absence leading to a formal warning. If he doesn't appear/resigns, then this stage is redundant.
Thanks all. No doubt it shall be me who puts the letter together!
tambo - good question but then he is like that - biting the hand that fed/feeds him, particularly when you know his background and that involved some time in HMP should we say.
Cassa - it's the way it is worded but one has to take account that there is a fairly well defined ACAS process - and, rightfully or wrongly so, he has rights. Play the process and achieve the results that you want. I add that as, after coming back from China and HK, it was the hardest thing to adjust to as to the then UK business culture, the protection for employees unbelievable.
Cassa - it's the way it is worded but one has to take account that there is a fairly well defined ACAS process - and, rightfully or wrongly so, he has rights. Play the process and achieve the results that you want. I add that as, after coming back from China and HK, it was the hardest thing to adjust to as to the then UK business culture, the protection for employees unbelievable.
There are two issues here both of which are grounds for dismissal. It just needs to be done in the correct manner.
Deliver a letter inviting him to attend a disciplinary hearing. State that the reasons are
A) processing orders in the opposite order to instructions given
B) failure to attend work and failure to notify the employer of absence.
State too that whilst the employer doesn't wish to prejudge the situation, if found to be without defence, would be deemed gross misconduct and grounds for dismissal.
Have a meeting with him, hear his side of the story, and unless he changes the employers mind, dismiss. If he does not turn up then he automatically dismisses himself.
Deliver a letter inviting him to attend a disciplinary hearing. State that the reasons are
A) processing orders in the opposite order to instructions given
B) failure to attend work and failure to notify the employer of absence.
State too that whilst the employer doesn't wish to prejudge the situation, if found to be without defence, would be deemed gross misconduct and grounds for dismissal.
Have a meeting with him, hear his side of the story, and unless he changes the employers mind, dismiss. If he does not turn up then he automatically dismisses himself.
noooo, stick with the Acas advice!!
and get some statements of employment in place
https:/
along with some grievance and disciplinary procedures
https:/
The production manager may well be in the wrong, but process protects everybody. If there's no known framework, then what, or to what degree can a formal warning or the sack mean in front of an employment tribunal if it's apparently appeared in no context?
Could be an expensive lesson for your friend DT
and get some statements of employment in place
https:/
along with some grievance and disciplinary procedures
https:/
The production manager may well be in the wrong, but process protects everybody. If there's no known framework, then what, or to what degree can a formal warning or the sack mean in front of an employment tribunal if it's apparently appeared in no context?
Could be an expensive lesson for your friend DT
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