Compulsary Overtime?

[mikenellen]

Can paid overtime be compulsary?

I work a 5 day week on 3 shifts. My contract has always stated "a reasonable amount of overtime is required" However, this was always accepted to be about 2 hours per week but never enforced.

For the last 2 years everyone has been forced to work 8 hours per week (as one extra shift of 8 hours) Making the working week 6 days.

There is no option to work the hours at an alternative time.

Even when people say they cant do it due to family commitments they are still threatened (and issued) with warnings for refusal to do the overtime.

Is this allowed?

Also if someone submitted a grievence because they could not do the overtime due to having children to look after - and then resigned or was dismissed because of this - would that be seen as constructive dissmissal?

[Whickerman]

No, this cannot be legally enforced. You're contracted to work your 39 or 40 hour week. Anything over that must be seen as extra, and at your discretion. However, the 'reasonable' part is open to interpretation. Certainly, 8 hours a week seems excessive, but you're not contracted to work it. Get in touch with your union rep asap and get this hammered out. It would seem you'd have a case for constructive dismissal if you were forced out for not working hours you're not contracted to do. Your union rep should advise on this.

[laurence2]

agree with whickerman, all jobs are different but enforced overtime in an absolute no no, Take legal advise/union reps, double check your terms of employment, get clarification from your employer as to what is a reasonable amount of overtime, ie 2hours-22hours.

overtime by right and in most if not all jobs is voluntary not compulsary, see also if you can get any evidence be it in writing/verbal that shows your employer has threatened you/other staff with warnings for refusing O/T.

all the best you,ve got a case here

[gammaray]

Next time they insist, tell them to shove it and take them to a tribunal. they are probably breaking several employment laws not to mention contravening the european working time directive. As a matter of interest, how many of the senior management actually do a "resonable amount of overtime"? And are you paid a premium (time and a half etc) for the extra hours you work? If not, all they are doing is extending your working hours, not paying you to do overtime in the accepted sense.

[mikenellen]

Thanks for the replies so far.

We do get paid X1.5 and X2 premium for the overtime. This s partly why the Company don't want us to do it. It's just that it is neccessery. Incidentally, it is a large international company, not just a small firm. There is a union but they are next to useless and usually advise we do what the management ask. The Unions have let this go on for 2 years now. I am sure they wont be breaking any of the main directives about employment. After all 8 hours a week is not excesive as such, its just so constant.

Some of the managers are there more than they should be and I dont suppose they get paid extra but staying over till 7pm say is not quite the same as coming in and working a Friday night shift or working 8 hours at the weekend.

We have said that if the overtime is not temporary and not voluntary, then surley they are making us work a 44 hour week and therefore should get paid the same for holidays and also shift pay should be paid on this too, but they dont agree. It isn't about the money tho. its about the fact we cant say no.

Something which is also happening at the moment is that they have announce around 60 people are to be made redundant. This is stupid as we are still having to do overtime.

[gammaray]

Your employers can't, as a matter of interest, build overtime into your contract. They have to have your agreement to work it. They can't force you to do it. the law is quite clear on this. Type "Working Time Directive" into your search engine - you'll get plenty of useful advice on the subject of overtime.

[laurence2]

mikenellen, i posted on this yesterday, and gammaray has also highlighted it, YOU cannot be force to do overtime, you can agree to it but thats where the buck STOPS.

it sounds that 1, your union are incompetent, 2, their scared to bring this up with management through fear of being victimized themselves, its reasonable to suggest that managerment are holding a gun to the employees heads { 60 redundancies}. this is one of the classic signs of bully boy management.

i,ve been a union rep for 9 years now and would like to think i can read the signs, take the advise you have been given by the posts, if you have lost confidence in your union reps this dose,nt mean thats it, just be careful tho as experience has told me in the past that becoming a rep or making waves for better words, will make you a target for the bully boy management.

ps, keep us posted how you get on, GOOD LUCK

[mikenellen]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the story in The Sun last Saturday about the Nissan workers who damaged cars because they were annoyed at being made to work more overtime on the late shift - and at short notice too ?

Their Amacus rep stated that the Management were within their rights to do this. Also they were not in breech of the Working Time Directive.

I contacted ACAS recently and they said that since we had been doing it for two years (even though we were told it was a temp arrangement) it was up to the workforce to submit a new grievance with the Management and re negotiate the terms.