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Politics0 min ago
Charged with a section 4 Can anyone help...?
I was in a road rage incident with another driver some guy cut me up,i used my horn to signal my frustration at him. He didnt take kindly to this & started mouthing abuse at me, so i mouthed abuse back at him this continued until he pointed at me & signalled to pull over which i did. Then he said he was ringing the police, i said fine iv done nothing wrong & waited for them to arrive.Then he flags down a passing police car & has a word with the driver who gets out & stands talking to him 2 mins later another two police cars turn up & the policeman start questioning me as if im the one in the wrong. Anyway i explained my side of the story & was free to go on my way with a just a warning, at no point was i arrested, a few weeks later one of the policeman turned up at my house & told me the guy had made an offical complaint & that i would be summonsed to court... I attended explained that i only swore & mouthed abuse because it was in retaliation to him mouthing abuse at me so i pleaded not guilty to a section 4 & trial has been set.
I have never been in trouble with the police before im a full time professional and the last thing id ever be decribed as is aggressive. From my point of view this was nothing more then a heated exchange of words but this guy is trying to make out he feared for his life & was left shaken and afraid even though i was alone in the car with a newborn baby. There was no violence commited, he sat feet away from me while waiting for police to arrive in which time i could of caused him harm if i intended to, then when the police arrived i was fully cooprative with them & have been throughout.. Its just the guys word against mine as both sides have no other witnesses. He has over exaggerated to make it sound more dramatic, i dont know if hes trying to get some compo or something but i think the whole thing is ridiculous. Can anyone give me a view on the likely outcome of this case..?
I have never been in trouble with the police before im a full time professional and the last thing id ever be decribed as is aggressive. From my point of view this was nothing more then a heated exchange of words but this guy is trying to make out he feared for his life & was left shaken and afraid even though i was alone in the car with a newborn baby. There was no violence commited, he sat feet away from me while waiting for police to arrive in which time i could of caused him harm if i intended to, then when the police arrived i was fully cooprative with them & have been throughout.. Its just the guys word against mine as both sides have no other witnesses. He has over exaggerated to make it sound more dramatic, i dont know if hes trying to get some compo or something but i think the whole thing is ridiculous. Can anyone give me a view on the likely outcome of this case..?
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I think it's unlikely that the CPS could obtain a Section 4 conviction (without independent witnesses) on the grounds of "intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him".
It's possible that the other guy might state that your words and/or actions reasonably led to him believing that he was about to become the victim of violence but, again, that would be difficult to prove.
However the CPS's best chance of securing a conviction might be if the other guy stated that you were deliberately 'winding him up' towards committing a violent act himself. That would still provide sufficient grounds for a Section 4 conviction:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegT ype=All+Legislation&searchEnacted=0&extentMatc hOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sort Alpha=0&PageNumber=0&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTex tDocId=0&activetextdocid=2236957
Even so, I still think that you're almost certain to be acquitted under a Section 4 charge. You biggest worry, though, might be if the CPS decided to substitute a Section 5 charge instead, since (in your statement to the police) you appear to have admitted the offence:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegT ype=All+Legislation&title=public+order&Year=19 86&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPo wer=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&P ageNumber=1&N
It's possible that the other guy might state that your words and/or actions reasonably led to him believing that he was about to become the victim of violence but, again, that would be difficult to prove.
However the CPS's best chance of securing a conviction might be if the other guy stated that you were deliberately 'winding him up' towards committing a violent act himself. That would still provide sufficient grounds for a Section 4 conviction:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegT ype=All+Legislation&searchEnacted=0&extentMatc hOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sort Alpha=0&PageNumber=0&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTex tDocId=0&activetextdocid=2236957
Even so, I still think that you're almost certain to be acquitted under a Section 4 charge. You biggest worry, though, might be if the CPS decided to substitute a Section 5 charge instead, since (in your statement to the police) you appear to have admitted the offence:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegT ype=All+Legislation&title=public+order&Year=19 86&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPo wer=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&P ageNumber=1&N
I support was Chris has said. However, if you are a person of no previous convictions, you are entitled to a "good character direction" - which means that if you give evidence on your own account, the Court MUST take into account your previous good character. By definition, in order to convict you, they must be sure you are lying. On the other hand, to acquit, they only need reasonable doubt that the other guy is mistaken (ie, they don't have to find he is lying).
I suggest getting some good legal advice. A decent brief may well secure an acquittal.
I suggest getting some good legal advice. A decent brief may well secure an acquittal.
Thanks for the answers, these were very helpful. My solicitor had previously wrote to the CPS stating that i was willing to plead guilty to a section 5 charge, this was rejected and they stated they were still going ahead with the section 4 because this guy was left shaken and afraid, so i dont he could state i was trying to provoke action from him as hes trying to play the victim and i dont think its possible for them to then try and charge me with a section 5 if i get aquitted on the section 4..
Im just hoping that if everyone in the courts are doing their job right they will see this for what it is... Which was nothing more then an exchange of words and should never of made it into a court room as it is...
Once again thanks for the answers though, its put my mind to rest abit...
Im just hoping that if everyone in the courts are doing their job right they will see this for what it is... Which was nothing more then an exchange of words and should never of made it into a court room as it is...
Once again thanks for the answers though, its put my mind to rest abit...
(wo)man in the street's point of view...
if he was that terrified, why would he pull you over? I've had such incidents in my car and all I wanted to do was get away.. not stop and face someone who had genuinely scared the pants off me.
it's bizarre and just doesn't ring true. he obviously wanted a confrontation and I would say he instigated it. I hope that will form part of your defence, and I wish you luck.
if he was that terrified, why would he pull you over? I've had such incidents in my car and all I wanted to do was get away.. not stop and face someone who had genuinely scared the pants off me.
it's bizarre and just doesn't ring true. he obviously wanted a confrontation and I would say he instigated it. I hope that will form part of your defence, and I wish you luck.
This is a fairly common occurrence of inconsiderate behaviour on the roads. My advice to anyone who becomes involved in one of these silly events is "Don't get involved." Do not rise to the bait. Ignore the crude gesticulations and mouthing of imprecations. Drop back, let the idiot pull away. Whatever you do, do not pull off the road and get involved in a confrontation. If you must, make sure it is in a public place where there will be witnesses or CCTV - so a services or garage forecourt. Don't forget, there are some very sad people out there whose only raison d'etre in life is to cause other people misery. Avoid them and don't let them spoil your life.
wideboards:
You're far too sensible(joke). I had personal experience of a very similar thing only a few weeks ago and, without going into the initial "cause", another driver saw fit to blast his horn at me, mouth obscenities, and roll down his window to thrust his middle finger up in the air at me. His car was in front of mine but all I did was shake my head and grin at his extreme intolerance. He continued mouthing and gesticulating until he disappeared in a different direction.
Ramz:
You don't seem to have told the whole story. I say this because you seem to say that after both of you pulled over, the only other thing to happen was the other driver phoning the Police who then turned up. It simply didn't happen like that, did it?
There had to be other things which went on, because had there not been, you wouldn't find yourself charged with a relatively serious public order offence. Especially if, as you say, there were no witnesses, just his word against yours. And you cannot claim that either of you would have been calm and collected after what had happened?
The CPS would not be spending public money on the basis of what you've described, there had to be quite a lot more to it.
You must accept that you, by blaring your horn at the other driver, initiated the whole incident. What were you thinking of? You've admitted having a newborn baby with you in the car while you're blasting away with your horn and cursing at this other guy, whose actions I don't condone either. He also acted like a prat by the sound of it. God knows what state the infant was in?
You're far too sensible(joke). I had personal experience of a very similar thing only a few weeks ago and, without going into the initial "cause", another driver saw fit to blast his horn at me, mouth obscenities, and roll down his window to thrust his middle finger up in the air at me. His car was in front of mine but all I did was shake my head and grin at his extreme intolerance. He continued mouthing and gesticulating until he disappeared in a different direction.
Ramz:
You don't seem to have told the whole story. I say this because you seem to say that after both of you pulled over, the only other thing to happen was the other driver phoning the Police who then turned up. It simply didn't happen like that, did it?
There had to be other things which went on, because had there not been, you wouldn't find yourself charged with a relatively serious public order offence. Especially if, as you say, there were no witnesses, just his word against yours. And you cannot claim that either of you would have been calm and collected after what had happened?
The CPS would not be spending public money on the basis of what you've described, there had to be quite a lot more to it.
You must accept that you, by blaring your horn at the other driver, initiated the whole incident. What were you thinking of? You've admitted having a newborn baby with you in the car while you're blasting away with your horn and cursing at this other guy, whose actions I don't condone either. He also acted like a prat by the sound of it. God knows what state the infant was in?
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