ChatterBank1 min ago
Renewable contract
38 Answers
I work part time at an independent school as the only trained nurse. When I satrted I negotiated a salary of £16k pa. It is annualised, and so I get paid as normal through the hoildays, which I am happy with.
However, the contract ends at the end of term (June 28th) and I will be issued with another one to start in September. This means I will be loosing 2 months pay and effectively being paid just over £13k pa instead. I have worked at an independent school before and my salary was paid irrespective of hoildyas - the amount paid already takes into account the time actually worked.
Is there anything I can do, other than walk away!
However, the contract ends at the end of term (June 28th) and I will be issued with another one to start in September. This means I will be loosing 2 months pay and effectively being paid just over £13k pa instead. I have worked at an independent school before and my salary was paid irrespective of hoildyas - the amount paid already takes into account the time actually worked.
Is there anything I can do, other than walk away!
Answers
Try to negotiate a permanent contract.
Failing that, try to get them to renew from June 28th rather than September, i.e. make the next contract a year contract, starting immediately the current one ends.
Failing that, try to get them to renew from June 28th rather than September, i.e. make the next contract a year contract, starting immediately the current one ends.
22:16 Thu 26th May 2011
Try to negotiate a permanent contract.
Failing that, try to get them to renew from June 28th rather than September, i.e. make the next contract a year contract, starting immediately the current one ends.
Failing that, try to negotiate a £1600 per month salary for your next contract, which will pay you £16K over 10 months.
Failing that, you're back to where you are now ... and you can choose to renew or walk away.
Failing that, try to get them to renew from June 28th rather than September, i.e. make the next contract a year contract, starting immediately the current one ends.
Failing that, try to negotiate a £1600 per month salary for your next contract, which will pay you £16K over 10 months.
Failing that, you're back to where you are now ... and you can choose to renew or walk away.
I don't often disagree with F30 (or the other regulars with HR expertise on here) but on this one I do disagree. I think you have been short-changed.
Case1: It is very common practice in the teaching sector (and it happens on every teaching contract that I've seen) for employment to terminate on 31st August. So if a teacher resigns at the end of the summer term, it ALWAYS applies that the employee is paid until 31st August.
Case 2: For 'supply' teaching contracts, the annualised salary is pro-rata'ed over the number of the teaching weeks and the employee is paid only for the weeks in-term. That is the general way things work for that sort of contract - but it isn't what you believe was agreed in your case.
It sounds like Case 1 should have been agreed here - even though I understand you are part of the non-teaching staff - but it really this should have been established at the start of the contract.
I suggest you go back to HR and make this point. Depending on the explanation, the process would be to take it up as the grievance - for which the eventual appeal process should involve at least one of the School Governors. Maybe they will see the point that you are making - and do make sure you draw the comparison to the way teaching contracts are organised in the explanation of the nature of your grievance.
Case1: It is very common practice in the teaching sector (and it happens on every teaching contract that I've seen) for employment to terminate on 31st August. So if a teacher resigns at the end of the summer term, it ALWAYS applies that the employee is paid until 31st August.
Case 2: For 'supply' teaching contracts, the annualised salary is pro-rata'ed over the number of the teaching weeks and the employee is paid only for the weeks in-term. That is the general way things work for that sort of contract - but it isn't what you believe was agreed in your case.
It sounds like Case 1 should have been agreed here - even though I understand you are part of the non-teaching staff - but it really this should have been established at the start of the contract.
I suggest you go back to HR and make this point. Depending on the explanation, the process would be to take it up as the grievance - for which the eventual appeal process should involve at least one of the School Governors. Maybe they will see the point that you are making - and do make sure you draw the comparison to the way teaching contracts are organised in the explanation of the nature of your grievance.
Thanks all for your help and advice. I realise that the school I work at now is a bit 'different' to where I was before - no board of governors and the Head seems to make up the rules as he goes along! (It's not really that small with about 400 pupils, 1/2 of whom board). The HR dept. is just one lady who works 3 days a week so I won't be able to see her again now until after 1/2 term. I enjoy my work but certainly can't afford to have no pay for 2 months and so I will tell them that, unless I have a permanent or 12 monthly contract, then I will have to leave.
I'll keep you posted with what they say!
I'll keep you posted with what they say!
Hi BM, if archeraddict were a teacher, I agree that the contract would normally have been until 31 August. It may or may not be the same for a post of trained nurse. We agree she needs to go back and ask. I think it's quite likely she did only sign up for a 10 month contract but hopefully the school has made an error and will extend it or will agree to change it anyway. However I know how tight budgets are, even for independent schools, and they may simply not have the funds to pay any more now.
I would accept all of what you have said IF they had made that clear - as I have said, I have over 5 years experience of working within the Independent School Sector and I have networked extensively with other nurses - I have not come across this before. I can't imagine anyone being prepared to stay at a school where someone is expected to have no pay for 2 months. I think the key fact that most seem to be missing is that the annual salary agreed takes into account the fact that there will be holidays when no work is needed. To not pay during July and August is taking the money out twice.
Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?
a) £16000 pa
b) ends June 29th
As I said, this was sold as a 'probationary' period. then a new contract would be issued if I was going to stay.
They want to keep me, but not pay me for July and August by starting my new contract in September, which I have been told will also end next June.
I'll say again that I do understand about 'annualised' salary. I have had that arrangement before. My agreed salary is paid in equal amounts during the year, despite the fact that I will have about 13 weeks unpaid holiday - standard practice with contracts that need you to only work during term time. The agreed salary is divided into 12 and paid monthly.
The agreed salary allows for the fact that 13 weeks is unpaid, or I would be on a much higher salary. Not paying me for 2 months therefore means that they are taking the money away twice.
AS I have said, I know that I signed the contract knowing that it ended in June but did not anticipate that my new contract would start immediately after, if they wanted me to stay. This arrangement means that they are saving themselves 2 months of my salary per year. I don't think it is good practice to have a 2 month break in employment every year but, if that's how they want to do it, then I believe they should divide my salary into 10 and pay me a higher rate monthly, to make up the difference. That said, I have not heard of a school doing this with trained staff before and I am disappointed to say the least!
Does that help to sort it out a bit? Thanks for everyone's time and thoughts.
b) ends June 29th
As I said, this was sold as a 'probationary' period. then a new contract would be issued if I was going to stay.
They want to keep me, but not pay me for July and August by starting my new contract in September, which I have been told will also end next June.
I'll say again that I do understand about 'annualised' salary. I have had that arrangement before. My agreed salary is paid in equal amounts during the year, despite the fact that I will have about 13 weeks unpaid holiday - standard practice with contracts that need you to only work during term time. The agreed salary is divided into 12 and paid monthly.
The agreed salary allows for the fact that 13 weeks is unpaid, or I would be on a much higher salary. Not paying me for 2 months therefore means that they are taking the money away twice.
AS I have said, I know that I signed the contract knowing that it ended in June but did not anticipate that my new contract would start immediately after, if they wanted me to stay. This arrangement means that they are saving themselves 2 months of my salary per year. I don't think it is good practice to have a 2 month break in employment every year but, if that's how they want to do it, then I believe they should divide my salary into 10 and pay me a higher rate monthly, to make up the difference. That said, I have not heard of a school doing this with trained staff before and I am disappointed to say the least!
Does that help to sort it out a bit? Thanks for everyone's time and thoughts.
OK, now that Elipsis has managed to get you to confirm what your letter of engagement said (which forms part of your contract), I'm afraid I agree that you have been short-changed and you will probably be unable to pursuade the employer to change their view. I thought that you had accepted a temporary contract of 12 months that the employer had ended (with notice) at the end of 10 months (yes, such a situation is perfectly lawful).
You best bet is to seek to persuade the employer that the wording of the letter was wrong from the start - based on what you have accepted, there is not a lot you can do, legally.
F30 - it is not only academic staff in schools who have 'term-based' contracts - many support staff do as well - I was merely explaining the principle.
You best bet is to seek to persuade the employer that the wording of the letter was wrong from the start - based on what you have accepted, there is not a lot you can do, legally.
F30 - it is not only academic staff in schools who have 'term-based' contracts - many support staff do as well - I was merely explaining the principle.
Yes, sorry archeraddict, but buildersmate has it right.
You need to write off this contract and look ahead. The fact they want you to come back works in your favour. It gives you the opportunity to negotiate a little.
I would point out that you had expected to be paid £16000 for the current contract based on your past experience of such matters, that you accept that you misunderstood and have been paid correctly for this contract, but ...
And then go through the three options I posted above (permanent, renew from June, or pay you more per month).
The main thing you have working in your favour is that you're a known quantity. To lose you and have to replace you for September would be a pain for them. Point out that they know what they're dealing with now, you've done your trial contract (as it might be viewed) and proven yourself, and that you'd like to work on a permanent basis now. If you really are prepared to walk away if you can't get what you want, then you can afford to push for what you want and have your bluff called.
Good luck ...
You need to write off this contract and look ahead. The fact they want you to come back works in your favour. It gives you the opportunity to negotiate a little.
I would point out that you had expected to be paid £16000 for the current contract based on your past experience of such matters, that you accept that you misunderstood and have been paid correctly for this contract, but ...
And then go through the three options I posted above (permanent, renew from June, or pay you more per month).
The main thing you have working in your favour is that you're a known quantity. To lose you and have to replace you for September would be a pain for them. Point out that they know what they're dealing with now, you've done your trial contract (as it might be viewed) and proven yourself, and that you'd like to work on a permanent basis now. If you really are prepared to walk away if you can't get what you want, then you can afford to push for what you want and have your bluff called.
Good luck ...
i think it's likely that you think you should have been paid 16k, and with exactly the same wording on the contract, THEY think you should have been paid 10/12 of 16k
in essence you have signed a 10 month contract where the money PA is 16k, therefore i can see why they think they should only pay you 10/12ths of it (however i can also see where the confusing has come)
if you can't negotiate it to your satisfaction, i reckon the only thing is to not renew
in essence you have signed a 10 month contract where the money PA is 16k, therefore i can see why they think they should only pay you 10/12ths of it (however i can also see where the confusing has come)
if you can't negotiate it to your satisfaction, i reckon the only thing is to not renew
Just an update. I was asked if I wanted to stay and explained that I did but was unhappy about having a break in employment with no pay for 2 1/2 months.
I am pleased to say that I have today signed my new contract, which starts as my last one ends. I will be paid the £16 k, spread evenly over 12 months and have no break in employment.
I am very relieved and thanks all for your comments.
I am pleased to say that I have today signed my new contract, which starts as my last one ends. I will be paid the £16 k, spread evenly over 12 months and have no break in employment.
I am very relieved and thanks all for your comments.
I am an RN with lots of experience but, in fairness, I only work 24 hours a week and realise that most of the holidays are unpaid so, when you allow for that, I'm happy with the pay. It was the break for 2 1/2 months and not being paid at all then that made me cross. When you work out the hourly rate for paid hours worked and statutory annual leave, it is a band 7. As the only trained nurse there, I think that's fair and I am now happy! ;-)
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