ChatterBank10 mins ago
some very important advice please
I have been under a lot of stress regarding work recently. I only work part time and its a clerical post, i finish work at 2.30 just in time to pick the kids up from school and get the eldest to mosque. Yesterday, my line manager emailed me and 4 other admin staff to ask us what times we can work, she wants us all to work till 4 some days. One member of staff already works 11 to 4. I emailed her back to say i can work till 3 the latest and i explained why. She replied to me'saying she has to be equitable and equal to all members of staff and suggests i look into my hours again, if not, HR will have to determine what hours i do.
At this email, i was annoyed, felt a little bullied into making a decision that i don't agree with, and i cant do. I have since looked at my statement of particulars of employment and there is nothing in there to state flexibility or that my manager can change my hours.
i started this job at 16 hours and ended up being moved around so many times and was eventually pushed to do 25 hours, i struggle as it is, due to suffering from depression and anxiety some times, i cant go shopping without feeling anxious sometimes.
i have applied for other jobs, but they already had people lined up for them, and my only option is to fight back/put up with it/or do a voluntary post somewhere else (its available) but i don't know where i stand with that in regards to an income.
sorry for the long and dreary blog, please give me some advice, does anyone work for NHS HR, where do i stand? i am not a union member.
THANKS
At this email, i was annoyed, felt a little bullied into making a decision that i don't agree with, and i cant do. I have since looked at my statement of particulars of employment and there is nothing in there to state flexibility or that my manager can change my hours.
i started this job at 16 hours and ended up being moved around so many times and was eventually pushed to do 25 hours, i struggle as it is, due to suffering from depression and anxiety some times, i cant go shopping without feeling anxious sometimes.
i have applied for other jobs, but they already had people lined up for them, and my only option is to fight back/put up with it/or do a voluntary post somewhere else (its available) but i don't know where i stand with that in regards to an income.
sorry for the long and dreary blog, please give me some advice, does anyone work for NHS HR, where do i stand? i am not a union member.
THANKS
Answers
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Rozia, how stressful for you. Plus, employers who manage by email are the pits.
How long have you been working until 2.30pm. If its been a good while you have a verbal contract and an assumed pattern of work. It can be changed by the employer but not as esy as by email.
Could you take a deep breath and go see the manager. Explain that you have looked into your hours again but are still not available after 3pm. Tell him/her this is making you stressed and to ease off.
In the meantime you might want to see the doctor and ask for their support with the anxiety while this is going on.
How long have you been working until 2.30pm. If its been a good while you have a verbal contract and an assumed pattern of work. It can be changed by the employer but not as esy as by email.
Could you take a deep breath and go see the manager. Explain that you have looked into your hours again but are still not available after 3pm. Tell him/her this is making you stressed and to ease off.
In the meantime you might want to see the doctor and ask for their support with the anxiety while this is going on.
my contract does not state specific times, but does state 25 hours to be worked over 5 days. I avoid seeing the GP about anxiety problems, feel a failure sometimes, but have children to think of and don't want to be deemed unfit and frowned upon. I know people are worse off and would love a job like mine, but if im forced to do these hours, i cant take my eldest to mosque and pick them up from school, and if i refuse they will force me to find another job.....its stressing me out, and makes me angry at the same time, i have always worked hard, not been on benefits at all, and now im being pushed to turn to the benefits system if things work out badly.
You will not be paid for voluntary work Rozia, except perhaps expenses, so forget that as a way of earning money. Can you perhaps get someone to fetch the children from school for you and keep them until you get home, you might be able to arrange this with a small remuneration attached to it. Not too much or it won't be worth you going to work. How often does your son have to go to the mosque - is it every night, and is he old enough to make his own way there? I feel so sorry for you having to juggle your time like this, but don't let it get you down. There is always a way round it.
Your manager is making the all too common mistake of thinking that 'being fair and equitable' means imposing the same changes on everyone.
That's just not true - if you told me to work from 10-4 instead of 9-3 it might be irritating, but that's all. Whereas for a mother with children to collect from school it would be a disaster.
Being 'fair and equitable' means treating everyone appropriately, according to their individual circumstances.
Which doesn't mean that "I have kids" is a get-out-of-jail-free-card, so that you can never be asked to be flexible or cover unsocial hours - just that the impact on you has to be assessed differently.
If everyone has to take some 'pain' then you may have to accept *some* changes - I've been on the other end of the situation and it got very annoying that there was an assumption that I (as the only male member of the team) would always be lumbered with all the unsocial stuff and ad-hoc changes.
If staying until 4pm is difficult for everyone, then you may all need to do a turn (however inconvenient) - but not every day and not at short notice.
Talk to your colleagues - see if you can come up with a plan that works for all of you - and be prepared to negotiate (for instance if someone takes the unpopular 4pm finish most days, then perhaps he/she gets first choice of holiday weeks).
Good Luck
dave
That's just not true - if you told me to work from 10-4 instead of 9-3 it might be irritating, but that's all. Whereas for a mother with children to collect from school it would be a disaster.
Being 'fair and equitable' means treating everyone appropriately, according to their individual circumstances.
Which doesn't mean that "I have kids" is a get-out-of-jail-free-card, so that you can never be asked to be flexible or cover unsocial hours - just that the impact on you has to be assessed differently.
If everyone has to take some 'pain' then you may have to accept *some* changes - I've been on the other end of the situation and it got very annoying that there was an assumption that I (as the only male member of the team) would always be lumbered with all the unsocial stuff and ad-hoc changes.
If staying until 4pm is difficult for everyone, then you may all need to do a turn (however inconvenient) - but not every day and not at short notice.
Talk to your colleagues - see if you can come up with a plan that works for all of you - and be prepared to negotiate (for instance if someone takes the unpopular 4pm finish most days, then perhaps he/she gets first choice of holiday weeks).
Good Luck
dave
Is childcare not an option for one day a week?
You will have given your manager something to work with and clear instruction that you will find it difficult to work 'till 4 on any other day
Are you a single parent? Any friends who can help?
I'm not suggesting your employer is right but it could be worth looking at other options to ease stress and anxiety
You will have given your manager something to work with and clear instruction that you will find it difficult to work 'till 4 on any other day
Are you a single parent? Any friends who can help?
I'm not suggesting your employer is right but it could be worth looking at other options to ease stress and anxiety
Sorry - I don't quite understand. If you work in a clerical capacity, what difference does it make if you work 9-2.30, 9.30-3, 10-3.30 etc as long as the work is done? Is this a way of getting you to actually increase the number of hours you work?
Whatever, I think to communicate this by email shows a lack of spine! Stick up for yourself and, as suggested before, maybe try to reach a compromise by working later one day per week. Good luck!
Whatever, I think to communicate this by email shows a lack of spine! Stick up for yourself and, as suggested before, maybe try to reach a compromise by working later one day per week. Good luck!
My argument is that when i was promoted, i had a verbal agreement with the manager of the department, that as long as i can work 9.30 - 2.30 i will accept the job offer. (Most people would be flattered to be promoted, and i was, but i have to think about my home life, and how things will affect the kids routines) She agreed to this, and gave another member staff the option to come into the job alongside me and work till 4, this member of staff agreed to these hours. I only went for the job for the hours and being able to get to school run and mosque on time.
I cannot afford childcare, not even for a day, get paid crap wage compared to what i do!! also mosque is more complex, i, as the mother, have to make sure my child is washed appropriately, and dressed in the mosque attire correctly, and i have to drop my child into the building, and stay there for the first 10mins, this is going to be the same for my younger child in July. My partner has works nights and days, my mother is not mobile enough, and my only sister has a job and a child of her own. So when it comes to family, there is no one.
I can honestly say, i haven't slept all night, worrying about this, if i lose my job, it will be terrible for the home income, my wage helps a great deal.
I have told me manager i can work till 3 every day, which gives them half an hour more, i know its not much, but i need to be at school at 3.5, and that's pushing it.
I cannot afford childcare, not even for a day, get paid crap wage compared to what i do!! also mosque is more complex, i, as the mother, have to make sure my child is washed appropriately, and dressed in the mosque attire correctly, and i have to drop my child into the building, and stay there for the first 10mins, this is going to be the same for my younger child in July. My partner has works nights and days, my mother is not mobile enough, and my only sister has a job and a child of her own. So when it comes to family, there is no one.
I can honestly say, i haven't slept all night, worrying about this, if i lose my job, it will be terrible for the home income, my wage helps a great deal.
I have told me manager i can work till 3 every day, which gives them half an hour more, i know its not much, but i need to be at school at 3.5, and that's pushing it.
you mention you are an NHS worker - in which case I feel you are absolutely fine. Though the NHS can be a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare it does have a lot of safeguards in place to protect workers and you do not need to be a member of the unions to access this protection. All NHS Trust will have policy and procedures in place in order to implement the 'Improving Working Lives Standards (IWL)' - this includes the provision for flexible working. See page 16 of the document here:
http://www.nhsemploye...%20lives_af080709.pdf
Though this may not all seem to apply to clerical staff the standards apply to all staff groups so your Trusts policy on this area should too. Your own Trusts policy should be accessible from your intranet but if its not HR should be able to help. Once you have read it I would advise you to be proactive and discuss the problem directly with HR. They should have been involved anyway if your manager wanted to change working patterns / contracts.
http://www.nhsemploye...%20lives_af080709.pdf
Though this may not all seem to apply to clerical staff the standards apply to all staff groups so your Trusts policy on this area should too. Your own Trusts policy should be accessible from your intranet but if its not HR should be able to help. Once you have read it I would advise you to be proactive and discuss the problem directly with HR. They should have been involved anyway if your manager wanted to change working patterns / contracts.
cath, please dont take information off the top of your head. You were wrong yesterday about Housing Benefit and you are wrong today - that's twice in less than 24 hours
Rozia: http://www.direct.gov...onditions/DG_10028079
The right to ask for flexible working hours etc
http://www.adviceguid...ic_rights_at_work.htm
Rozia: http://www.direct.gov...onditions/DG_10028079
The right to ask for flexible working hours etc
http://www.adviceguid...ic_rights_at_work.htm
oj is right. Employers, any employer, only have to demonstrate that they have given serious consideration to the request. You might like to talk to the other admin staff involved to see if you can come up with a counter offer which might suit you better but if you are needed at work till 4 and the manager can prove that then they can insist. I agree about the email management, its very rude and poor management practice.
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well, i have decided to be the bigger person, and speak to the manager on Monday, tell her my situation, and inform her that if she wants HR involved, then thats fine, might be better all around. I have tried to accommodate them, so it doesn't look like im avoiding the change altogether, im just being practical to my circumstances. I offered to work 10-3 and that's as far as i can manage, had my family situation been different, i would have been willing to work 11-4, which would mean i get my household work done before work, i wouldn't mind that, but i cant do it.
I love my job, i complain, whinge and get annoyed with work, like everyone else, but when it comes to it, i really do like the job, and i don't want to lose it, even if it is crap pay!!! thanks all of you for your help, it eases the stress chatting on here and asking your valuable input.
I will inform you of what happens. xxx
I love my job, i complain, whinge and get annoyed with work, like everyone else, but when it comes to it, i really do like the job, and i don't want to lose it, even if it is crap pay!!! thanks all of you for your help, it eases the stress chatting on here and asking your valuable input.
I will inform you of what happens. xxx
rozia, If your contract of employment says you should work 25 hours over 5 days or you have accepted these hours for some time but your employer wishes to increase the hours you work they wish to vary the terms of your contract. If there is no flexibility or machinery for change then employers must follow the correct procedure. It seems you started at 16 hours, which has been increased to 25 hours work, if you did not object to this in writing it would be deemed you have accepted the change.
In changing your hours they should look at your personal circumstances, not those of others, as sunny-dave has said, you seem to have reached the correct conclusion go and speak to your line manager on Monday and explain why it would be impossible for you to work the extended hours and how much you enjoy your work.
Do not leave, do not get excited, be cool and calm, much in employment can be achieved by rational discussion. Good luck.
In changing your hours they should look at your personal circumstances, not those of others, as sunny-dave has said, you seem to have reached the correct conclusion go and speak to your line manager on Monday and explain why it would be impossible for you to work the extended hours and how much you enjoy your work.
Do not leave, do not get excited, be cool and calm, much in employment can be achieved by rational discussion. Good luck.
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