Is the concept of "Chav" racist?

[jamesy boy]

Why is it currently popular to label young, white, (mainly) working-class people who wear sportswear, "bling" jewellery and baseball caps,etc as "Chav scum" and so on, when it would pass unmentioned for a young working-class black person to affect this look?

Is it possible to be a black "Chav"? Or is it an easy way for the media to demonise/mock all non-middle class people without appearing racist?

[IndieSinger]

Colour has nothing to do with it! Anyone of any ethnic decent can be a chav.

[jno]

Maybe, IndieSinger, but how many blacks do you see on www.chavscum.co.uk ? Not a lot.

[flaming]

I must write to my middle-class Dutch MP about it.

[flaming]

Correction:  My middle-class Dutch Labour MP.

[acw]

The website www.chavscum.co.uk is a reflection of the creator/author's views, not of chavs as a complete group.  I think the media just avoid focussing on non-white chavs to avoid being accused of racism.  Oh - and it doesn't mock all non-middle class people - the anti-chav culture never mocks upper class people.  And I don't think there's a deliberate demonising of "all non-middle class people", especially as the media attacks are generally aimed at youths.  Difficult subject though!

[littleoldme]

'Chav' is not a race.
'Chav' is not a class.
'Chav' is not a set of clothes.
'Chav' is an attitude. A bad one.

[BigDogsWang]

Spot on littleoldme. It is a chosen 'lifestyle'.

[Octavius]

And don't they have the freedom to choose that lifestyle without being ridiculed or demonised by people who think they are better than them?

[BigDogsWang]

The definition of 'Chav' is 'Council House and Violent'. I don't particularly agree with the 'CH' part as this is without doubt a discriminatory term against people who may not be fortunate enough to own their own homes. However, the 'Violent' part is definitely a chosen lifestyle. Are you therefore saying that people should be given the freedom to carry out criminal acts?

[jno]

I think that's a fake etymology, bigdogswang, along with 'CHeltenham AVerage'. I think there was a previous thread on this, concluding that it was a romany word, but can't locate it. And it seems that most of the crimes they're accused of are fashion crimes.

[Octavius]

It is a romany word but has been turned into slang along with pikey, neds, townies, kevs, charvers, steeks, spides, bazzas, yarcos, ratboys, kappa slappers, skangers, janners, stigs, scallies or pikers, depending on where you are.

As The Times said:

Those called chavs can certainly be accused of boorish behaviour, bad taste and trading in fake Burberry goods. But what have they really done to bring such opprobrium down on their heads? It is hard to resist the conclusion that the fashion for chav-bashing says more about the chav-bashers themselves...

Victorian England also had a fear and loathing of the great unwashed. But mass demonstrations, riots and unrest made those fears genuine. By contrast, the chavs are among the most powerless and passive people of our time. Atomised, politically silent, mostly invisible kids with a Burberry and Beckham fixation pose an unlikely threat to civilisation. The fact that chavs can simultaneously be turned into a kitsch fashion/sex thing confirms that they are hardly the enemy within; 20 years ago, bankers did not dress up like striking miners for a fun night out.

So by all means have a laugh at the chavs� expense. But if the only way to feel good about ourselves is by sneering at the boys at the back of the class, it doesn�t say much for the rest of the school, does it, chavvy?

The chavscum website markets itself as..a guide to �Britain�s burgeoning peasant underclass�.

Of course I don't condone violent behaviour, but your acronym is a media creation, so effectively the word chav really has nothing to do with violence.

[acw]

The previous thread was my question.  It can be found here. 

 

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Phrases-and-Sayings/Question111738.html

 

I think people should be allowed to dress however they like and listen to whatever they like etc etc SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT INFRINGE UPON OTHERS' ENJOYMENT OF THEIR RIGHTS.  This is a simple concept of property law and should be applied to anti-social behaviour too.  I'm sure not ALL Chavs are bad people.  But enough drink and smoke underage, swear in front of children, intimidate other people, steal, vandalise and generally behave in a way that would be fine if they all lived on their own island.  But they DON'T.  They shouldn't be allowed to inflict their habits on other people any more or less than any other individual or group in society. 

 

That's my 2d worth anyway! :-)

[jamesy boy]

I seemed to have opened up a whole can of Burberry-checked worms here! Octavius' Times article raises some excellent points.But acw should realise that "Chavs" are not the only youth sub-group who swear, smoke, drink, hang around shopping centres,etc. What about other youth groups, nu-metallers, skaters, and so on? Why are "Chavs" singled out for abuse? Is it just snobbery?

My own feeling is that most skaters, etc grow up, whereas there are plenty of 20 and 30-something "Chavs" about, thus making them a presence throughout the age-groups.Any thoughts?  

[Gooner_Badge]

Chav was label put on the "street urchins" but the tabloid press .. to put them all into one group.

Chav is actually a South East name for kids. Deriving from South East London and Chatham manors.

There ya go.

[jamesy boy]

From "Racing Pigs and Giant Marrows" (1996), by Harry Pearson:

"Romanes words are common in regional dialects.In the area of the North Riding in which I grew up someone you liked was a 'cushty charver'- charvo is Romanes for lad, kushti is good in the same language." 

[mslovely]

Sportswear is made in really poor countries and these people who make them are paid really little..while the companies spend an awful lot of money on advertising. Many people i know who call em 'townies' single out 'chavs' because of this. Also cos of the slang voices and the violence..i agree with acw and most skaters that i know (i know a huge group all over the place) are not as bad as these 'townies' or 'chavs' as people call them. sometimes singling out 'chavs' is to do with snobbery as well as i can tell by the way some people talk of them. Its mostly the whole lifestyle that people dont like

[acw]

I didn't suggest that Chavs were unique in these habits.  Nor did I suggest that this made an excuse for any "victimisation".  I acutally think that many chavs LIKE being demonised by the media.  Being accepted by society may horrify some of them.  Just as being seen as part of a "trend" is not something goths like to hear, despite the fact that they do all seem to dress the same.  Risky comment I know. 

 

But please do not assume that I do not have a wider outlook.  I do REALISE there are other groups.  You may not agree with my views everyone, but please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm stupid or ill-informed, or that I live in my own little world.  :-)

[jamesy boy]

No offence meant,acw!

mslovely's point about sportswear being manufactured in the Third World is interesting.A lot of clothing is made in poorer nations, regardless of brand/style, so I wonder if this is a valid point.(Clothes made in the U.K. tend to be much more expensive..e.g.Burberry!) 

[acw]

None taken then!

[flaming]

I think chavs get an unfair share of bad publicity.  Sometimes the media love wallowing in shock horror without really investigating.  (They did a fair job showing Harry as a yob, though!)   Some chavs will be villains same as are found in any group, but whenever I see pix on the telly about town centre yobs fighting amongst themselves and the police, or chucking up in the gutter (girls included) it isn't chavs I'm seeing.