Health and Safety

[david_d11]

Hello I have currently been suspended with pay from work until a hearing about negligence of Health and Safety...

I will briefly explain what happened and if anyone can advice me on where I stand i would greatly appreciate it.

On Monday I was given a job card from my office to sample a water tank for Legionairre's/TVC and Ecoli..I attended the site and climbed up to the roof space of the building.However to access the actual tank room I had to use a harnice to gain access,I was not issued with a harnice to complete the site nor was there anything on the Job card stateing I would need a harnice to access the tank room.

I decided to complete the job anyway and climbed into the tank room while holding onto the lanyard after i sampled the tanks i tried to make my way back out of the tank room.However this was difficult to do safely enough as i had no harnice and couldnt hold anything due to holding the samples in my hand.

So i left the samples in the tank room to retrieve my bag so i could put the samples in my bag and climb down while holding onto the lanyard.When in the van i get a phone call from my boss to carry out a site audit..He asks me where my bottles are and i inform him they are in the tank room still.

Now I accept I have breached Health and Safety by going into a roof space without a harnice.However my boss who was on site is aware this site needs a harnice and instruted me to go retrieve the samples.

So my question is I understand my breach but is my boss not comitted the exact same breach as me,as he has instructed me to retrieve the sample's knowing a harnice is needed to access the tank room?

[boxtops]

There is surely a protocol at your place of work to cover this sort of task, so you would know in advance you needed a harness? IMO you decided to do it without the harness, thus putting yourself in potential danger. If you had had an accident and sued your employer, they would cite contributory negligence - you knew you needed the kit, you hadn't got it, so you proceeded in an unsafe manner. IMO.

[factor-fiction]

I think there is a joint responsibilty. If you knew you needed a harness you should have asked for one. The mnager is at fault too. This should all come up at the hearisng. Are you able to be accompanied by a colleague/union rep?

[cathfromsaron]

IMHO if there was a risk assessment done - and you were shown it - indicating the procedure inc. the harness, this should have been followed.

if not, then no harm done ... ?

[david_d11]

The protocol at our place if we receive a job card with infomation about the building..how many tanks if you need ladders etc..there was no infomation on use of a harnice.

I am also a trainee and have attended a Harnice awareness course however no one at my company has signed me off as eligable to use a harnice so I am not actually qualified to use one as I have not been signed off by my employees.

I fully accept blame on my part for carrying out the job and realise I am at thought for risking my safety in the first place.

However my point is my boss is fully aware of this site and he was parked outside of the building and knowing the dangers of needing a harnice he instructed me to go retrieve the samples anyway..so surely this is where my company are also to blame.

If i had an accident the first time Then yes i would accept blame but the second time when he instructed me to retrieve the bottles surely is where they are to blame.

They have asked me if i would like to bring a colleague/union rep so i have until tuesday to let them no if i will be bringing anyone along.

[boxtops]

Do take someone with you - you need representation. You shouldn't be put in a situation where you need to use equipment you are not signed off to use, so there is a responsibility on your employer here, IMO. (and please note if you have to make a written statement, just for accuracy - it's HARNESS..)

[cathfromsaron]

yes, as a trainee you needed supervision.

take a rep with you and keep copies of all work, inc. documentation and letters, formal and informal conversations and training!

[excelsior-1]

a tricky dilemma, i sympathise with you. unfortunately i do not have the knowledge to offer a recommendation - but i agree with those who suggested you have representation with you .. no doubt your boss will try and heap all the fault on you. i can only say - the best of luck to you at your investigation.

[sophie_1003]

I'm sure legal-y types will say there is joint blame but I would say it's all on you; you realised you needed a harness and shoud have refused to do the job but instead you carried on regardless. Did you ask your boss at any point to provide a harness?

[bigbadmarty]

It sounds like the boss is trying to get rid of you . At least you got his samples from the tank when you could have just filled them from a tap .

[david_d11]

Lol sorry Harness..

I am a trainee and although been put on one of these awareness courses,my company have a policy of having to sign you off to say you are capable of using the harness.

Trouble is the one person that is good with this sort of stuff who i Know use to work for my company however they transferred him to another Water company.

Also I have never been given any previous official warning's I assumed you was to be given a verbal then written and a final warning before you risk loseing your job.

If I am to lose my job I will feel cheated by my company and will not take this lightly.I have documented evidence of me personally carrying out annual checks on schoools etc on my own when Im not officially signed off from my company to say im qualified enough to do this.

Also I have been given an awarr of NVQ LEVEL 2 in the water industry from a college in Birmingham..however all I did was fill out my personal details and was told they would handle the rest...surely this is ilegal..

Our equipment is ment to have monthly collaboration checks to ensure our results are correct..I have not had a collaboration check on my equipment since last year.

Surely this is all ilegal???

[david_d11]

Sophie

I am not for one minute takeing blame from me as I realise I am to blame for carrying out the work.However risk assessments have been made on this building so my company are fully aware of the risks yet sent me a trainee to complete the site anyway..

In my line of work basically every job is a risk that you could say I cannnot access due to health and safety weather it be a light out..or my laces snapped one day yet my boss told me to carry on anyway,so normally as employees we sorta risk our health and safety as we get in trouble for not producing enough productivity in a week...

So either way we lose really.

[sophie_1003]

Ah I see; that's not good! Definitely take a union rep with you if you have the chance and just let them do all the talking; good luck!

[boxtops]

I don't understand about the NVQ - I work with NVQs and you can't just get one, you have to fill out a portfolio of evidence against the standards which is assessed by external assessors. It's not just a matter of filling in a form, anything else would be fraudulent, it has to be your own work, with witness evidence and the assessor seeing you do the job in person.

[wolf63]

david - I can't help you at all in this matter, but does this company do the testing of the water themselves? The stuff that you are testing for is potentially fatal - and the company sounds like they aren't as organised as they should be.

I wish you luck - you appear conscientious and take the job seriously, I hope that the company realises this.

[cathfromsaron]

yes, with the opportunity to lapse at each stage after a certain time, it is usually verbal, then written then final written warnings ... but actually nothing happened and you are a trainee!

also, they can sack you straight away for certain breaches of H&S codes!

[david_d11]

Boxtops

This is my point exactly we was all brought into the office to be told that we will eventually hold a NVQ level 2 in Water however we would need to have a number of exams,site visits etc.

We had 2 woman come in to take a basic Maths and English exam but other than that nothing else happened.Next thing a guy came into the office asked us to sign our names and contact details etc then said he would do the rest.

I did not do nothing or have no site visits,next thing im sent a NVQ Level 2 in water..

I do take my job very seriously especially when working in public buildings,schools/old peoples homes etc how ever I can only do job to my best ability.But admittedly there has been many occasions I have been to a building where I am in way over my head and as a trainee my employees no this yet they send me to complete these conracts anyway.


And no we don't physically test the water ourselves we sample the tanks/buildings etc then send them off to be tested in a lab.

I realise im likely to lose my job and i accept that as i should have just played by the book and not risked harm to complete a job.But I also get the feeling they just want to get rid of me and save on payments of laying me off.

[boxtops]

It doesn't help with the job query, but if you've been sent an NVQ certificate without submitting a portfolio, that sounds very fishy to me. Yes to the basic skills tests, yes to the signing up - but it takes around 6 months to get an NVQ. I don't like it.

Good luck with the rest - have you thought about contacting ACAS? their helpline for employees is free, all the details are on their website.

[david_d11]

Yeah to be fair it did take around 6 months Boxtops but surely I should have completed more than a maths/english test to be classed as qualified in water.It also seems very fishy to me and I don't no weather to bring this sort of stuff up in the hearing or wait to see my fate,as i cant really afford to lose my job right now,then take it further.

Thank you again box tops and to all those thant passed on info,I have been informed to speak to them and I will be calling them Tuesday for some advice.

[mrs_overall]

Sorry to butt in here, but there is no such thing as an NVQ in Water

[boxtops]

There are a number of Water-related NVQs, mrsO - and yes, you should have submitted a portfolio and been assessed in your practical work. However that's beside the point - all the tasks you do ought to be risk assessed, even down to working with a broken shoelace if you are on a risky task.