ChatterBank13 mins ago
Muslim School Up Against It.
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Its difficult to see how this school is going to survive when it has had such a damning OFSTED report.
I listened to an ex-Teacher being interviewed on Radio 4 this week. She gave a lot of alarming information about this school. There was one item, towards the end of the interview that really shocked me. She said that pupils were required to wash their private parts before prayers, and that a teacher was sent into the toilets to supervise this procedure.
Can it be true that a school in Britain today, after all the publicity given over the Saville affair, really asks Teachers to supervise the cleansing of children's genitals ?
Its difficult to see how this school is going to survive when it has had such a damning OFSTED report.
I listened to an ex-Teacher being interviewed on Radio 4 this week. She gave a lot of alarming information about this school. There was one item, towards the end of the interview that really shocked me. She said that pupils were required to wash their private parts before prayers, and that a teacher was sent into the toilets to supervise this procedure.
Can it be true that a school in Britain today, after all the publicity given over the Saville affair, really asks Teachers to supervise the cleansing of children's genitals ?
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Was that pre or post Savill, and if you were a Teacher, would you be happy to supervise a line of boys, or girls, standing at the sink, washing their bits ?
Would you think it necessary for children to wash their bits during the school day ?
I too had communal showers after rugby in the 1960's, but I don't recall the PE Master taking much interest in our showering arrangements. He was more concerned about illicit cigarette smoking !
Would you think it necessary for children to wash their bits during the school day ?
I too had communal showers after rugby in the 1960's, but I don't recall the PE Master taking much interest in our showering arrangements. He was more concerned about illicit cigarette smoking !
It`s normal practice for Muslims to wash before prayers. It`s nothing new.
At school in the 70s we were supposed to have a shower after PE but they were communal showers which we seriously didn`t like so we used to try and skip them. A lot of us used the excuse that we had forgotten our towels but the PE teacher became wise to that and said that we would have to dry ourselves with our airtex t-shirts if we didn`t have a towel. She used to patrol the showers to make sure that everyone was washing themselves. A couple of us got wise to her tactics though, and followed her around the showers when she was on her patrols -she never knew we were behind her and never managed to supervise us in the shower.
At school in the 70s we were supposed to have a shower after PE but they were communal showers which we seriously didn`t like so we used to try and skip them. A lot of us used the excuse that we had forgotten our towels but the PE teacher became wise to that and said that we would have to dry ourselves with our airtex t-shirts if we didn`t have a towel. She used to patrol the showers to make sure that everyone was washing themselves. A couple of us got wise to her tactics though, and followed her around the showers when she was on her patrols -she never knew we were behind her and never managed to supervise us in the shower.
An amusing anecdote 237J !
But I am unaware that small children need to wash their private parts before they pray, in the Muslim religion. I worked with quite a lot of Muslim men about 15 years ago and there was quite a lot of hand and feet washing going on in the mens lavs. But I am sure that I would have noticed any outbreak of penis and testicle cleansing going on.
My central point remains. In the aftermath of Savill, is it really a good idea for a strange man, or woman, to supervise such an intimate procedure ?
But I am unaware that small children need to wash their private parts before they pray, in the Muslim religion. I worked with quite a lot of Muslim men about 15 years ago and there was quite a lot of hand and feet washing going on in the mens lavs. But I am sure that I would have noticed any outbreak of penis and testicle cleansing going on.
My central point remains. In the aftermath of Savill, is it really a good idea for a strange man, or woman, to supervise such an intimate procedure ?
I agree naomi. As a committed atheist, I really don't think that there should be any religion-based schools at all. I was brought as a Catholic in the 1950's and went to a Catholic School. We didn't have to wear any strange clothing and I nothing "dodgy" ever happened to me.
But I grew up thinking that there were only 3 possible versions of religions. Catholics, like us. All other Christian religions were Protestant. There were Jews, but they were beyond the pale, as they murdered Jesus. Everybody else were heathens.
So a nicely rounded education !
But I grew up thinking that there were only 3 possible versions of religions. Catholics, like us. All other Christian religions were Protestant. There were Jews, but they were beyond the pale, as they murdered Jesus. Everybody else were heathens.
So a nicely rounded education !
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. "Protestants" were an anathema to us little Catholic kids, as far as the School was concerned.
I have told this story on AB before. I remember the end of summer term one year. The local Priest came and gave us all a pep talk. He reminded us that just because we were going on our hols didn't mean that we didn't have to go to Mass every Sunday. He told us that if we couldn't find a Catholic church wherever we were, we could, at a pinch, attend a Greek or Russian Orthodox instead. But under no circumstances whatsoever, were we to go to a Protestant Church ! That was a one-way ticket to hell.
Now, we had our hols on a farm on the edge of Dartmoor, so just where we were supposed to find an Orthodox church was somewhat of a mystery to my Dad !
The point is that I and my little brothers were given a very biased education. I was in my late teens before I found out about Baptists, Methodists, Muslims, Buddhists, etc, etc. No attempt was made to expand our knowledge any further than was necessary to go through our First Holy Communion and subsequent Confirmation.
My problem with religious-based schools is that they will concentrate on one narrow base of knowledge. A very worrying development of late is the setting up of fundamentalist Christian schools, with their insistence on the literal truth of the Bible. I don't think its at all healthy for little children to be told that ancient man chased dinosaurs for his lunch, and that the planet is only 6000 years old.
If that is what parents want to their children to believe, then it should be done at Sunday School, not in a proper school. Where are our scientists of the future going to come from if kids are fed that drivel ?
I have told this story on AB before. I remember the end of summer term one year. The local Priest came and gave us all a pep talk. He reminded us that just because we were going on our hols didn't mean that we didn't have to go to Mass every Sunday. He told us that if we couldn't find a Catholic church wherever we were, we could, at a pinch, attend a Greek or Russian Orthodox instead. But under no circumstances whatsoever, were we to go to a Protestant Church ! That was a one-way ticket to hell.
Now, we had our hols on a farm on the edge of Dartmoor, so just where we were supposed to find an Orthodox church was somewhat of a mystery to my Dad !
The point is that I and my little brothers were given a very biased education. I was in my late teens before I found out about Baptists, Methodists, Muslims, Buddhists, etc, etc. No attempt was made to expand our knowledge any further than was necessary to go through our First Holy Communion and subsequent Confirmation.
My problem with religious-based schools is that they will concentrate on one narrow base of knowledge. A very worrying development of late is the setting up of fundamentalist Christian schools, with their insistence on the literal truth of the Bible. I don't think its at all healthy for little children to be told that ancient man chased dinosaurs for his lunch, and that the planet is only 6000 years old.
If that is what parents want to their children to believe, then it should be done at Sunday School, not in a proper school. Where are our scientists of the future going to come from if kids are fed that drivel ?
I saw the Newsnight interview with some of the Governors of the school in question who were trying to defend the school and at least some of the practices. They justified asking all women teachers who might work at the school to wear a headscarf, regardless of their religion, as being akin to an airline with its uniform policy for air stewardesses. They insisted there was no separation of the kids by gender, that some girls would be seated at the front, and some seated at the back. I think the interviewer should have broadened the scope of her discussion with the governors to include some of the other dubious practices carried on at the school, but we did not get that.
I did not find their justifications believable, and I understand they have to comply with 19 recommendations by OFSTED within weeks. I am not sure they will be able to do that, so the future for the school looks bleak. Not at all sure what happens to the pupils at that point, which should be the concern.
This business about washing before prayers sounds really odd, Mikey, especially in this day and age.
I did not find their justifications believable, and I understand they have to comply with 19 recommendations by OFSTED within weeks. I am not sure they will be able to do that, so the future for the school looks bleak. Not at all sure what happens to the pupils at that point, which should be the concern.
This business about washing before prayers sounds really odd, Mikey, especially in this day and age.
Lg...I too saw the interview and I wasn't impressed either. Paxman should have done it and we might all be a lot wiser about the events today if he had.
The testimony of the ex-Teacher that I heard on Radio 4444 this week was very compelling and I don't see any reason to disbelieve her. If she said that girls were at the back and boys at the front, than that alone should have raised alarm bells with OFSTED, which, of course, it probably has.
The argument about airline uniforms was entirely spurious and I think it speaks volumes that so-called educated people, working as Governors, should have tried to pass that off.
OFSTED are apparently standing for no nonsense in this affair, and we shall have to see what the outcome will be. I am not terribly bothered if this school survives or not. There are plenty of other schools near-by that can take up the slack, and without all the religious mumbo-jumbo.
The testimony of the ex-Teacher that I heard on Radio 4444 this week was very compelling and I don't see any reason to disbelieve her. If she said that girls were at the back and boys at the front, than that alone should have raised alarm bells with OFSTED, which, of course, it probably has.
The argument about airline uniforms was entirely spurious and I think it speaks volumes that so-called educated people, working as Governors, should have tried to pass that off.
OFSTED are apparently standing for no nonsense in this affair, and we shall have to see what the outcome will be. I am not terribly bothered if this school survives or not. There are plenty of other schools near-by that can take up the slack, and without all the religious mumbo-jumbo.
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