Disgraceful Guidance By Universities Uk

[LazyGun]

Universities UK have issued guidelines suggesting it is acceptable for gender segregation to be enforced in Universities within the UK - putting the "rights" of religious fundamentalists above gender equality.

This is appalling.

http://www.channel4.com/news/universities-uk-uuk-gender-segregation-demo-protest

[chrisgel]

Yes LG some deft doublespeak. By segregating the sexes we are treating them equally apparently.

[jomifl]

Seems as if the big money comes from Saudi, can't have universities putting principles before cash.

[jomifl]

Chris, so as well as the females being separated from the males, the males are also separated from the females. That sounds fair until you realise that the females aren't separated from the females or the males from the males, so that is sexual discrimination.

[LazyGun]

I agree with Chris' point though- UUK have used to weasel words to try and justify placing religious appeasement above gender equality. Makes me ashamed to be a graduate of the system, frankly :(

[woofgang]

If I have read it correctly, the scenario is that a speaker asks for segregated seating. The university can provide it so long as the seating for both genders is equal and NON SEGREGATED SEATING IS PROVIDED AS WELL, leaving the choice to the audience.

All a bit silly but nothing to get ones underwear in a bunch about.

[jomifl]

Some guy will turn up in a burkha and demand to sit with the girls.

[chrisgel]

Wonder how that would go down in parliament? Or anywhere else actually.

[LazyGun]

@Woofgang Nothing in the guidance I have seen offered by UUK suggests that an option for non-segregated seating is to be offered as well. Quite the contrary. Segregation should be allowed so long as it is side by side, if a speaker asks for the audience to be segregated.

You not find that much to be offende at, Woofgang, but I do.

[BlueToffee]

Superb article on this in yesterday's 'i'

[chrisgel]

Woof I watched a video from the last time this happened. People were directed to the separate areas. It was, in my opinion, quite intimidating and I don't think I would have spoken up about it if I were attending. I therefore assume that a muslim woman would toe the line without putting up too much of an argument.
I may of course be wrong.

[FredPuli43]

The case study which counsel appears to have advised on resulted in an opinion which is full of other assumption s, of caveats , if you will: if this and if that condition applies then....

The main one is the premiss that the people attending all agree toi segregation. The trouble with that is that anyone who would like to hear the speaker, but who doesn't approve of segregation ,will be denied the opportunity of hearing the speaker. That cannot be in accordance with any university's principles; such meetings should be open to all. It would be otherwise if, for example, the university held meetings in the form of a synagogue service; there it is part of Jewish practice for men and women to be segregated; but I really can't see that happening. You can't declare a room a synagogue for a day, still less a mosque, I suspect.

[FredPuli43]

Incidentally, I don't regard the idea that there will be some non-segregated seating as any more than a lawyer's point. The reality is that if, as adumbrated, the speaker is of such religious conviction that he regards non-segregation as contrary to his beliefs , he won't speak. And if the majority of the potential audience thinks that way, they won't tolerate non-segregation, since it is offensive in their eyes. Thus they will either not attend or will make anyone bold enough to sit next to someone of the opposite sex unwelcome, or worse.

[LazyGun]

@Fred I still cannot find where UUK have stipulated that some non-segregated seating is offered. Not sure where Woofgang found that.

It is anachronistic to impose gender segregation in an institution like a university, in the UK. Prof. Laurence Krauss had the right idea when he found out that segregated seating was a requirement when he was invited to debate some mouthpiece or another from an Islamic society at London University. He refused to participate unless they re-ordered the seating.

[Milvus]

Perhaps the problem would be solved if we had balance. we have female only universities, why not male only?

[woofgang]

In a statement, UUK said: "The guidance was approved by senior legal counsel as properly reflecting the law. It is not prescriptive. Universities are independent institutions and will make decisions on a case by case basis.

"The guidance does not promote gender segregation. It includes a hypothetical case study involving an external speaker talking about his orthodox religious faith who had requested segregated seating areas for men and women.

"The case study considered the facts, the relevant law and the questions that the university should ask, and concluded that if neither women nor men were disadvantaged and a non-segregated seating area also provided, a university could decide it is appropriate to agree to the request.

"It is very hard to see any university agreeing to a request for segregation that was not voluntary and did not have the broad support of those attending. As the guidance explains, there may be many other reasons why a university might refuse a request for segregation."

[LazyGun]

What female-only universities do we have in the UK?

[LazyGun]

I do not think simply offering a "non-segregated" area is sufficient, Woofgang. It still allows for gender segregation as a platitude to religious belief, and I think it unacceptable for external speakers and religious societies to attempt to impose their beliefs upon a country where genders are equal in law.

[pixie373]

I agree, lg. We seem to be going backwards in some ways. Although having said that, we have single-sex schools.

[LazyGun]

@ pixie Not sure how many girls-only schools there are left in the UK, pixie? I was not aware of any in the state sector, but I could well be wrong. But I do not think we should be happy with them, either :)

[Milvus]

Lucy Edwards
Murray Cavendish
Newnhham
All Cambridge