Should The Met Introduce Positive Discrimination?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590911/Hogan-Howe-wants-positive-discrimination-recruit-ethnic-officers-white.html

I personally don't think they should, but what they should do is make sure whoever they recruit they are the proper person for the job, regardless of the fact that they are from the ethnic minorities.

Incidentally why do they always assume that the ethnic minorities have a black skin, if the exercise is to make the Met more representative of London, then we should have Indian officers, Chinese officers, Polish officers, Romanian officers, Bulgarian officers, Jewish officers, etc, etc and of course an equal mix of male and female officers from all these groups.

Oh sorry I missed out others from all the various sexual orientations.

[sp1814]

AOG

You asked:

"Incidentally why do they always assume that the ethnic minorities have a black skin"

Who does?

That's not what the article suggests.

I can't see how this 50/50 scheme could possibly work. What happens if for every 100 new applications, only 20 come from people from ethnic minorities? Would sixty applications from potential white officers be rejected, leaving forty in total.

I suspect Hogan-Howe knows this is unworkable, both mathematically and legally and is just trying to generate some positive buzz whilst we all wait for the next story about what Met officers got up to with the Lawrence family.

[naomi24]

No. They should recruit the best people for the job.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// You asked: ///

/// "Incidentally why do they always assume that the ethnic minorities have a black skin" ///

/// Who does? ///

/// That's not what the article suggests ///

Well there are enough references to whites in these few excerpts from the article, to prove otherwise.

*** Met Police should take on one ethnic minority officer for every "WHITE" recruit, says Hogan-Howe in new 50/50 recruitment drive ***

*** Scotland Yard will have to recruit an ethnic minority officer for every "WHITE" officer they take on, under radical plans to shake off its reputation for racism in the ranks. ***

*** In the wake of accusations that the Metropolitan Police is still ‘institutionally racist’, the boss wants to change the predominantly "WHITE" male make-up of the force with a radical five year recruitment blitz of 50/50 ethnic minority officers to "WHITE" officers. ***

*** Senior officers fear the mainly "WHITE" face of policing risks damaging relations with minority communities and also makes the police less effective in fighting terrorism. ***

[sandyRoe]

How would an imbalance ever be redressed if some form of positive discrimination wasn't introduced? It was used successfully to get the percentage of nominal RCs in the police here in NI close to the level of Catholics in the general population.

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

Yes but we are not talking about an equal mix of two religious groups here, we are talking about equality amongst London's ethnic minorities of which there are many, both black and white.

[Old_Geezer]

No one or organisation should introduce so called positive discrimination. It discriminates unfairly against innocent folk; which is supposed to be what we are trying to get rid of. It is intrinsically a hypocrisy.

[sandyRoe]

If we were to accept that white recruits were a fairly homogenous group, then recruiting someone from an ethnic minority for every white recruit would work.

[sandyRoe]

* homogeneous ^

[New Judge]

So basically, Sandy, one white person (say a Bulgarian or a Pole) for each black person. It's strange that white people can be seen as a "fairly homogenous group". Try saying that about black people.

“What happens if for every 100 new applications, only 20 come from people from ethnic minorities?”

To answer that question simply see what has happened (and what would probably still be happening if they were recruiting at all) in the Fire Service, SP. I know this article is a bit old and from the Daily Telegraph (which is probably only just second in some people’s mind to the Mail in terms of sensationalism):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576499/Fire-brigade-discriminating-against-white-men.html

But there is definitely truth in the article. Of course the Fire Service’s Chief Officer refuted the claims saying that because personnel were not actually recruited at the sessions then no discrimination was taking place. So I imagine it would have been perfectly OK if the sessions were restricted to white people only.

As far as the London Fire Service goes I know that they have been adopting a similar policy in their recruitment. They are not recruiting at the moment but when they last did white males need not have bothered applying (but of course you won‘t find that written down anywhere).

I really don’t know what it is about public services having to be representative of the communities they serve to such a degree that ethnic minorities must be targeted in this way. If they don’t want to become police officers or firefighters then that’s that. Just leave the jobs to those who want them and avoid the bad feeling that such discrimination (or call it what you like) brings.

[sandyRoe]

Shouldn't the aim be to have a police service whose employees represent the diversity of the population it serves?

[sp1814]

AOG

But you asked 'why do they always assume that ethnic minorities have black skin'.

'They' don't.

Just because the article refers to white officers and recruits, doesn't mean that there is an assumption that non-white officers and recruits are black.

The article specifically says 'black and ethnic minority officers'. It then leaves out 'black' thereafter.

I don't think you've made your point.

[Svejk]

I doubt any positive discrimination was needed in the NI police service. They may have rolled back decades of negative discrimination against the catholic community.

[sp1814]

SandyRoe

You asked:

"Shouldn't the aim be to have a police service whose employees represent the diversity of the population it serves?"

Ideally yes, but I don't think that it changing recruitment rules will ever work. For a start, we would have to assume that there are sufficient numbers of young people from ethnic minorities who actually *want* to become police officers...

[ludwig]

They should positively discriminate in favour of people who aren't corrupt racist bully boys. We need more of them in the Met.

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

Why would you think that just because they were white they would all be the same, we are all individuals, white, black,or another shade.

[youngmafbog]

Positive discrimination? No, active recruitment and promotion (not to sergeant) campaigns in areas where there is clearly a mismatch to the local population? Yes.

At present we are not all in a big melting pot black, white, yellow, whatever still hold some prejudices whatever the liberal elite want to think so it is important we do have a mix in law enforcement or you simply won't get the information flow that is needed.

[dave50]

Positive discrimination only leads to the suspicion that someone from an ethnic minority only got the job because of their ethnicity not because of their skills or qualifications.

[anotheoldgit]

Perhaps they would be better employed reducing the violent crime in London?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teenagers-hand-left-hanging-by-a-thread-following-axe-attack-on-london-high-street-9221217.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-the-toll-of-gang-violence-on-london-9186659.html

[New Judge]

"Shouldn't the aim be to have a police service whose employees represent the diversity of the population it serves?"

No. The idea is that the population should integrate. I know that's not happening but manipulating the make up of the police will not encourage that, only the opposite in fact. If I get stopped and questioned by a police officer all I care about is that he has done so lawfully, he has good reason and that he treats me civilly. I don't care whether he is black, white or yellow. The idea that people can only be policed by others who are like them needs to be challenged. I know the arguments that suggest that black people are not treated properly by the police (some of which I support with, some I do not). However, changing the ethnic make up of the police is not likely to scotch those arguments. What the police need to do is to recruit high quality people who will make good and, most importantly, uncorrupt officers.