What Constitutes An Apprenticeship?v

[10ClarionSt]

I started my engineering apprenticeship when I was 15 at AEI, Trafford Park, in 1963. This was a company that employed 20,000 people. We attended apprentice school for 3 days per week, spent one day a week in the factory with a tradesman, and went to Stretford Tech one day a week. Compare that with a young man on Saints and Sinners this week who, we were told has gained an apprenticeship aged 21. He has learning difficulties and we saw him doing his job, cleaning windows, sweeping the floor, cleaning toilets etc. how is this an a apprenticeship? What skills and qualifications will he gain? It's good that he got a job and I'm pleased for him but an apprenticeship?

[Maydup]

It depends what apprenticeship he's achieved perhaps. It could be level 1 in cleaning services or such like, which is not to be confused with level 3 mechanical and electrical engineering, or level 3 business and administration etc

[paddywak]

It makes me laugh to hear them talk about apprentices these days.I started my apprenticeship as an electrician with the N.C.B in September '66 we started off going to the local tech five days a week where we did three days in the various workshops,returning to the pit to do our underground training and work with the craftsmen for on the job training.The next four years consisted of two days at Tech(the course I was on) the rest of the time spent at the mine both surface and under ground working with the craftsmen,and going on various courses at the boards own training centres,each year finishing with a trade test that had to be passed before proceeding.At the end of this I was the certified Grade 1 electrician and let loose om the pit,but still had to continue at Tech for another two years to get my engineers ticket.Incidentally in regards to the cleaning up the workshop foreman,who in those days stood on the right hand of god, was a firm believer in a clean shop being a safe shop so during your second year when you were deployed to the workshop you'd take your turn doing nothing but keeping the shop clear of rubbish and running around for the craftsmen.

[ChillDoubt]

I was having a discussion with young Chill a week or so back about what he does in D&T(Design and Technology), known as Metalwork and Woodwork when I was in school.
I asked if he uses lathes, drills, welding equipment, saws etc. He said he doesn't.
I asked if had made anything like a toffee hammer(first thing we made in metalwork i.e. sawing, drilling, countersinking, tapping and dyeing). Said he'd done nothing like that whatsoever.

When I asked him about woodwork and the items I'd made in school(fruit bowl, coffee table, stool, kitchen roll holder, egg rack) he again answered in the negative and indeed had never heard of a mortise and tenon joint.

This made me wonder, where exactly are the UK's next set of engineering apprentices etc coming from and where do they get their initial inspiration, if not in school?

[ChillDoubt]

Forgot to add dovetail joint after mortise and tenon.