Attendance Allowance And Care Home Fees .....

[Gizmonster]

A family friend has been in a care home for over 12 months - looks like this is going to be permanent :(
A friend of mine has said she'll be eligible for attendance allowance, as it's not means tested, so any of her pension, savings, etc are not taken into account.
My only concern is that any money she gets from attendance allowance, will be taken off her to pay for her care home fees. She has a good personal pension and has recently been assessed and most of her pension goes towards paying care home fees.
Would it be worth while applying for attendance allowance, or would she have it all taken off her to pay care home fees??

[diddlydo]

Definitely worth applying for Attendance Allowance - yes, the care home will take it for fees but your friend will see more of her pension.

[EDDIE51]

^ Good answer. The attendance allowance will pay some of the care fees that are currently being taken from her pension. So she will be better off with more pension left.

[ummmm]

The care home should provide all this information.

[EDDIE51]

^ Very true ummmm , but unfortunately some care homes are only conserned about getting their fees paid.

[Gizmonster]

Thanks for the replies, but I'm concerned that once the council find out that she's getting attendance allowance, she'll be re-assessed and she'll end up paying more care home fees to the council and be no better off than she already is.
Can anyone please give a definitive answer as to whether attendance allowance is taken into consideration when assessing care home fees??

[fiction-factory]

I don't know, but there seems to be nothing to lose by applying other than possibly a bit of wasted effort

[EDDIE51]

Attendance allowance is not income related so it can not be taken into account when assessing care fees.

[Rosetta]

You can claim Attendance Allowance if you are self funding in a care home http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/attendance-allowance#sec9

[woofgang]

It says here that attendance allowance is not payable when living in residential care unless you are completely self funding. As you are talking about reassessment by the Council it sounds as though that is not the case here.
"Going into hospital, residential care or a hospice

You or someone acting on your behalf should also tell the DWP (Disability and Carers Service in Northern Ireland) if you have been admitted to a hospital, a care home or a hospice, as this may affect your benefit.

Going into hospital

Attendance Allowance is not payable after the first 28 days in hospital.

Going into a care home

Attendance Allowance is not payable after the first 28 days in a care home, unless you are completely self-funding.

Special rules apply if your council or trust is temporarily funding your stay in a care home while you sell your former home. Seek advice if you are in this situation."

link http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/attendance-allowance

[bednobs]

if the council are funding a portion - im surprised they have not yet asked her to apply for it

[Gizmonster]

//// Attendance Allowance is not payable after the first 28 days in a care home, unless you are completely self-funding. ////

..... this tells me what I need to know. The person in question pays most of her pension to the council towards care home costs, but it does not pay for all the fees, so I'm assuming this is what they mean by "completely self-funding".

Oh well :(

[Hymie]

You might consider NHS Continuous Healthcare (see link) for your friend, whereby all care costs (including care home fees) are paid by the NHS, should they qualify.

https://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/Pages/nhs-continuing-care.aspx

A person is assessed by healthcare professionals against the following criteria, and would generally need to score the highest level of need in at least 2 of the 12 categories to qualify.

behaviour
cognition (understanding)
communication
psychological/emotional needs
mobility
nutrition (food and drink)
continence
skin (including wounds and ulcers)
breathing
symptom control through drug therapies and medication
altered states of consciousness
other significant needs

But because the NHS has no spare money – the qualifying bar is set very high to minimise NHS costs.

My late mother was assessed for NHS continuing healthcare – at the time she was house bound (living in her living room), hoisted in and out of bed and dressed by carers, hoisted onto a commode and into an armchair where she sat all day unable to move. She only had limited movement in one arm, which allowed her to feed herself from food and drink placed close by.

Based on the above, her NHS continuing healthcare for mobility was scored at level 2 and her continence was also scored at level 2. When I queried this, the healthcare assessors advised me that this is because her incontinence was being managed since she was wearing incontinence pads. Quite how someone with my mother’s mobility was not assessed as being in the highest level of need, was beyond me.

[bednobs]

for the moderate (level 2?) level of need for mobility, the descriptor says "In one position (bed or chair) for the majority of time but is able to cooperate and assist carers or
care workers."
which sounds like what you described your late mum to be like. Even being able to be still when the carers ask you to is considered being able to co-operate

[bednobs]

and the low level for continence sounds like what you are describing too "Continence care is routine on a day-to-day basis;
Incontinence of urine managed through, for example, medication, regular toileting, use of penile
sheaths, etc."
it's true that NHS funded care is very hard to get, and is reserved fr those with the greatest levels of need

[Hymie]

Bednobs – your post mentions regular toileting etc – but nothing about spending all day in a (double) soiled incontinence pad.

I doubt my mother would have viewed the imposition of being hoisted in/out of bed, on/off a commode, and in/out of a chair against her will, as co-operating with carers.

[bednobs]

i doubt it too hymie but the criteria is objective rather than subjective; not based on how peple feel about their situation. the top level for continence is "Continence care is problematic and requires timely and skilled intervention, beyond routine care
(for example frequent bladder wash outs, manual evacuations, frequent re-catheterisation)." which is why your mum didnt get the top level i guess (from what you have said) - her care was routine and unproblematic (to manage) ad could be done by carers rather than nurses

[woofgang]

yes...the bar does seem to be set high for continuing (Health) Care....This is because it is health funded and is intended to cover the costs of interventions that require a health professional. It was brought into being to replace permanent residence in a hospital.

[Gizmonster]

Thanks for more replies - very informative and helpful.
I don't think I'll even bother applying for NHS Continuous Healthcare - she's mobile; can dress and undress; feed herself and requires no help in the bathroom .... so it would be a waste of time even bothering to apply.
Her problems are mental, rather than physical - she had a heart attack and heart stopped for a few minutes, depriving the brain of oxygen and subsequently caused vascular dementia :(

[jadyn]

If she is paying any money to the local authority for whatever purpose, rest assured that the local authority will encourage her to apply for Attendance Allowance. Councils actively work to encourage council run care home residents to apply for every penny they are entitled to from the DWP.

The sole purpose of this behaviour is that they can maximise what they can take from the resident for the care and accomodation. Financial Assessment documentation completed during the early days of accomodation and interviews with social workers will allow them to establish exactly how much the resident receives now and how much they should be receiving when all unclaimed benefit entitlement is taken into account. They will then inform the resident or next of kin exactly how much of that money they expect in payment each month. They will bill the resident if they ever leave for the oustanding amount and should they die in residence, the council will be expected to be paid immediately once probate has been granted.

Having been through this truly appalling, intrusive and undignified procedure myself with social services, rest assured that the local authority are predominantly concerned with financial recovery and little else.

[woofgang]

jadyn, if a care home resident is at all funded by the local council, they are not eligible for attendance allowance. Councils do encourage care home residents to apply for every penny of central funding that they are entitled to. This puts money back into council budgets to be spent on the needs of others.