News0 min ago
When is theft not theft (also posted in law)
8 Answers
One of our employees has stolen some money from the till in one of our stores. He did this on 2 occasions that we are aware of, the first being some cash he stole instead of dropping it into the safe and the second time he simply walked into the store when he was not on duty, opened the till and helped himself to cash. When challenged by another employee on duty at the time, he denied that he took any cash or opened the till. However our cctv cameras have caught him stealing cash on both occasions.
We sacked him and reported him to the police (note that we have received legal advice from our employee advisors and have followed the correct procedures). When the police spoke to the employee he claimed that he had taken money from the store because we owed him money in wages.
This is completely untrue and we have advised the police so, but they are telling us before they can proceed any further, we must prove to them that we do not owe him any money. I know that within employment law, if an employee has been underpaid/not paid, they must raise it with the company, if this does not settle matters, then they must raise a grievance and if necessary take it to an employment tribunal. I have never heard that it is acceptable for anyone to help themselves to cash that they believed they are owed by their employers!
If this is the case, then surely any employee can do this and claim they are owed money by thier employers? My gut feeling is that the police cannot be bothered to chase this for us and are hoping that we will drop the matter. We have now had to get together all the paperwork to prove tha
Our original contact with the police was made by at the end of December, the police have been very dismissive with our area manager and are now only doing more now my partner has been more insistent with them.
Has anyone heard of any other cases like this?
Many thanks
Sue
We sacked him and reported him to the police (note that we have received legal advice from our employee advisors and have followed the correct procedures). When the police spoke to the employee he claimed that he had taken money from the store because we owed him money in wages.
This is completely untrue and we have advised the police so, but they are telling us before they can proceed any further, we must prove to them that we do not owe him any money. I know that within employment law, if an employee has been underpaid/not paid, they must raise it with the company, if this does not settle matters, then they must raise a grievance and if necessary take it to an employment tribunal. I have never heard that it is acceptable for anyone to help themselves to cash that they believed they are owed by their employers!
If this is the case, then surely any employee can do this and claim they are owed money by thier employers? My gut feeling is that the police cannot be bothered to chase this for us and are hoping that we will drop the matter. We have now had to get together all the paperwork to prove tha
Our original contact with the police was made by at the end of December, the police have been very dismissive with our area manager and are now only doing more now my partner has been more insistent with them.
Has anyone heard of any other cases like this?
Many thanks
Sue
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How much went missing? Less than £100 and the police might take the view that it should be dealt with in the same way as shoplifting (i.e. caution or an on the spot fine). The police/cps will not bring a case unless they are sure you did not owe the employee money, but a copy of your wage journals and a copy of the contract of employment will be sufficient evidence. The fact that these records are not to hand straightaway does not help your case with the Police. You say the police were dismissive with your Area Manager? Could this be because s/he might be a poor witness in Court? Also, are your accountancy practices robust enough to prove that money has gone missing? Your employees defence lawyers will have a 'field day' if they are not.
Thank you for your answers. We have a robust payroll system (sage payroll) that is backed up by a good clocking on/off system set up on the till that provides evidence of when employees are in the stores. We have plenty of evidence to show that we do not owe this employee anything, he has been fully paid for all hours worked.
Records are available to provide to police at any time, we have never refused or not been able to provide them to the police and I cannot see that anyone could justify that this could be used against us.
I think the point I was asking was not if we can prove that the employee stole from us, we can, but that the fact that he just took money from the till does not seem to be good enough for the police to want to bring a case. Why does this seem to be an acceptable excuse for stealing? As I said under employment law, an employee must first ask for the missing money, then bring a grievance and finally take it to a tribunal if all else fails. It does not state anywhere that it is okay to help yourself if you believe that you have been underpaid!
Many thanks for the answers provided so far.
Sue
Records are available to provide to police at any time, we have never refused or not been able to provide them to the police and I cannot see that anyone could justify that this could be used against us.
I think the point I was asking was not if we can prove that the employee stole from us, we can, but that the fact that he just took money from the till does not seem to be good enough for the police to want to bring a case. Why does this seem to be an acceptable excuse for stealing? As I said under employment law, an employee must first ask for the missing money, then bring a grievance and finally take it to a tribunal if all else fails. It does not state anywhere that it is okay to help yourself if you believe that you have been underpaid!
Many thanks for the answers provided so far.
Sue
Quote:
"A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest . . . if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person".
Section 2(1), Theft Act 1968
http://www.statutelaw...204241&filesize=13469
Chris
"A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest . . . if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person".
Section 2(1), Theft Act 1968
http://www.statutelaw...204241&filesize=13469
Chris
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