CSA or not!?

[tgm1974]

My partner has 3 children from his previous marriage - 21yr old, 14 yr old and a 12 yr old. We have a 3yr old son together.

My partner is currently involved in a court case with his ex wife to claim half the value of his old property that she still lives in. This house has been mortgage free for 15 yrs so the only bills she has to pay is the gas, electric, etc. We have bought a house together 4 yrs ago and have exactly the same commitments as his ex-wife but we have a mortgage to pay also.

The 14 & 12 yr old stay with us on a Wed/Sun (overnights) & normally an extra night every week/fortnight. This has been the norm for the last 3ish yrs. We also have them more over school bank holidays or if their Mum decides to go away on holiday (normally 4-5 per year!). His ex only works of a night (a stewardess at a local "sailing club" or works in the local old peoples home) leaving the children to fend for themselves or be looked after by a neighbour after school til around 10pm of a night. We dont know why she wont get a day time job to work around the children but thats an ongoing argument. Anyway, my partner does not give her money via CSA or privately for the children. Its not that hes denying them it but he refuses to hand money direct to her as she wont even ensure food is in the cupboard for them. We have sent them home numerous times with bags of shopping. He also pays out for any clothes they need and pays half the cost of school trips. The 14 yr old now lives with us and Ive started claiming CB for him which they have authorised against her complaining. Is it wrong for him not to be handing money direct to her or via CSA .... as the kids do not go without unless in her care.

Many thanks for proper helpful advice

[ljdksa]

Hi. Yes, it's wrong. If the children are in her care, he needs to give her a certain amount directly and regularly so that she can organise herself. Also, he will have proof then that he is contributing. He is risking a huge back payment owed to her, unless he can prove everything he has spent on the kids. Even then, presents are not normally taken into account. He is not really in a position to criticise her two(?) jobs, if he is not paying regular money for his children.

[dotty.]

I think he's meeting his responsibilities and his obligations, she probably claims family tax credit based on her age income and family status. That comes from the state and you will both no doubt have paid tax over the years, she's getting some of it back., have you asked whether she informed the tax office that the 14 year old was now with you? she should have adjusted her claim which will alter now, that is assuming she was on family tax credit

[tgm1974]

Ljdksa : It is not presents he is giving to his children it is items they need that their Mother should be providing when in her care - she doesnt send food to our home for them when they stay with us yet we DO send items back with them. He pays for school uniforms, normal "growing up" clothes as they get older, trips out, school holiday skiing fees, etc, etc. All the stuff he would be doing if they were still together. Its not the case that he just passing the odd t-shirt to them or a few sandwiches!

DOTTY : many thanks for your help. She does claim CB and Working Tax Credits. When her son came to live with us full time (returning to see his Mum for 2 days a week) I informed her that I would be claiming for both the above. She was OK with this but then when she actually recd a letter from the Inland Revenue she sent my partner a text saying "who do you think you are taking this money from me". Surely if we are providing for him full time then we are entitled .. the award has been granted to us so they must be happy with all info Ive provided in proof of this move. If he was to move back with his Mum, then Id re-tract the claim naturally.

Its just a situation thats gone sour now .. it was amicable until she turned on him. The money that my partner would give to her is just spent on the children in others ways so she cant squander it!! Is that wrong?

[ljdksa]

I'm not suggesting he is not being generous - just that legally he should be paying her maintenance. She should have money towards bills etc. If one of the children is now living with you, it will cancel out some or all of what he should be paying and the CSA will also take into account how many nights the children spend at yours. He could however, be spending £1000 a week on clothes for them, but if their care is with their mother, she is not getting that money, so would not count as maintenance.

[tgm1974]

I wasnt meaning to sound funny LJDKSA but even though they both used to spend more time with their Mother we also have to cover the bills for when we are here and also the children ... so its like a double whammy. Im just thinking from my point of view if I was here. Id be made up to live in a mortgage free home if I was in her situation and before all this upset he would also help out financially when she needed it ... I just didnt think it was so fair with us having exactly the same committments as her along with a mortgage .... it was more of a 50/50 split with the kids as she was always dropping them for one thing or another!!

Sorry my soapbox subject!!

[bednobs]

yes, i think it is wrong for him not to be paying as well. Perhaps she does not buy food because she can't afford it with no maintenance money?

[ljdksa]

That's fair enough. I can understand how frustrating it must be! That is partly why I would suggest a formal, regular agreement. Then he has done his part and she will have to manage her own finances. Also, he then has proof of what he has given. That way, all the finances don't get "muddled together." He should have one agreement with her for any children that live there- and that's it. Should be no need to provide food or clothes then on top of that, unless he particularly wants to. If you genuinely (objectively) think she is an unfit mother who will not feed and clothe the children, that's a different issue really and probably best to speak to Social Services. However, if she involved the CSA, they would force him to give her money directly. Would you not expect the same if he moved from yours?

[PipinHull]

tgm it does sound a bit like you've already made up your mind and are looking for confirmation! I don't think anyone is saying he's not doing his bit, but you asked for information and on a purely factual basis, if she is the 'parent with care' then she'd be entitled to put a claim in through the CSA. If you go to the CSA website there is a calculator that gives some idea of how much she'd get. However, my understanding is that if care is shared, then maintenance is owed to the parent who claims CB. That means if your partner and his ex both decided to go through the CSA, he might have to pay her for the 12-year-old, and she might have to pay him for the 14-year-old as you are now claiming the CB! If he's worried he really needs to start keeping receipts etc and be prepared for a potential back-claim.

[tgm1974]

He would naturally give me money anyway as I wouldnt leave my children with no food or abandon them to go to work of an evening. I appreciate she works two jobs but she does nothing whilst the kids are in school then goes out to work at night - a qualified accountant too!! She is well within her financial needs with the amount of hols she goes on (less children) and the £12k car she has just bought so my gripe is a little more than "I dont want him giving her anything".

I jsut think we do all we do bar manually handling her money but she just wants the world to the point she has recently forged his signature to claim back £3k on a PPI claim!!

[PipinHull]

I suppose the point is, it's not us you'd have to convince if she decided to make a claim for any payments through the CSA. You obviously have a lot of reasons why neither you or your partner want to pay her directly, and they sound fair enough to me. The CSA is notoriously uninterested in these things, however. I have had a friend go through the appeals process recently - pretty much all they want to know is how many nights do the kids spend with each parent, what do parents earn and do they have any other dependents? If you have serious concerns about the children's welfare when they are with their mother then this is separate to the CSA/maintenance process.

[tgm1974]

OK we will just have to see what happens - I think she is venting off due to the court case she is having to entail with him and she doesnt want to sell/move from her 5 bedroom house that 90% of the time only has her and her daughter living there ... she is a typical only child acting spoilt. (no disrespect to any other single child out there)

[ummmm]

Are you jealous?

[tgm1974]

Jealous of what??

Most definitely NOT .....

[pink-kittens]

As he should be paying her maintenance for the 12 year who lives with her, SHE should also be paying for the 14 year old that lives with you
IMHO this nullifies either of them paying anything to the other - simple

The 21 year old wouldn't be entitled to maintenance

[ljdksa]

pink-kittens, it isn't that simple. It also depends on the earnings of each parent. The higher earner is likely to have to pay something to the other, so the children are treated equally. It would be taken into account that they also have a child living with them though.

[tgm1974]

Thanks everyone - i think to be honest she is just ranting and raving as her WTC and CB now come to us for the 14 yr old - she is showing that her children really are just a cash machine to her.

Anything for an argument with her even after the weekend incident where we found out that the 14 yr old has been out smoking/drinking of a Sat night when in her care. He has now ran back to his Mum and refuses to come to our home where he lives - wants to stay with his Mum!! She doesnt help any situation which gives him the option to play them off against each other. When he had a run in with his Mum he would always run to our home ... now with tables turned he runs to her and she is all "oh he will be staying here with me" ... just making the situation worse and not working with his DAD!!

[tgm1974]

Hi REDHELEN

I am actually texting her as we speak and the tones of her texts are ridiculous. I have always had the contact with her re the kids and its been civil. Since the money with CTC and CB stopped she has become ar5ey!!

My last text to her was actially stipulating that we are all adults here and need to work together .... and Id appreciate her not speaking to me like a child and putting demands on me to withdraw the claim and calling my partner a disgrace cos he wont have both childnre on a Sat when she works (even though she picked this day to have them both back) then doesnt even help out dropping or collecting ..... my partner alone spends £60 a week in just petrol going to and fro. He has now said he wont help extra with having the childnre on the days she supposed to when she says she working .. he has to put his foot down somehow!!

Im waiting her angry reply to my polite and nicely worded one!

[ljdksa]

In her position, I would be far more upset that my child had moved out, than the loss of any benefits. Are you sure that is not why she's upset? It must look like you have her ex, getting half the house (I know that's fair- but it is also the kids' home) and then you had her child too. And all the time not giving her maintenance in a predictable, organised way. I think I would find that difficult tbh. I think the easiest thing for all concerned is for your partner to agree a regular monthly amount to pay and maybe see the children at weekends. Then the contact is there and also the mum is able to keep her job. Best all round? You really should be all on the same side for the sake of these children.