Editor's Blog10 mins ago
A complaint against ambulance crew
Last night at work (in a severe Dementia uni) we had a 89 year old lady fall on the floor (not uncommon) she complained of hip pain and there appeared to be a shortening of the leg, under such circumstances we call 999 immediately as per our First Aid Training. I was fairly confident that this lady hadnt broken anything but I am not permitted to make decisions under those circumstances.
In fact we are supposed to call 999 every time someone falls on the floor according to our First Aid training, in a severe Dementia unit we would probably be calling them out every day, as is the frequency of falls.
So I called 999 and an ambulance arrived.
On examination of the lady, the paramedic decided to try and stand the lady, she stood up and was just shaken and bruised.
The paramedic then said to me that if they can move their leg then nothing is broken and not to waste their time!!! I was furious at this and I pointed out to him that a lady sat in the same room had walked across a room with a broken femur and that recently a gentleman in our care had also walked on a broken femur, so I know what he said is wrong, the other Paramedic told me that we were certainly correct to phone 999 and every 999 crew that has attended in the past have also told us not to take chances as a broken hip/femur can be immediately life threatening due to the proximity of the femoral artery. I want to make a formal complaint about this, my manager is away at the moment and she is so lame she would not make a complaint as she is bone idle.
Would I be causing any problems by making this complaint off my own back in my own time?
I am so angry about his comments, I wont let this rest!
In fact we are supposed to call 999 every time someone falls on the floor according to our First Aid training, in a severe Dementia unit we would probably be calling them out every day, as is the frequency of falls.
So I called 999 and an ambulance arrived.
On examination of the lady, the paramedic decided to try and stand the lady, she stood up and was just shaken and bruised.
The paramedic then said to me that if they can move their leg then nothing is broken and not to waste their time!!! I was furious at this and I pointed out to him that a lady sat in the same room had walked across a room with a broken femur and that recently a gentleman in our care had also walked on a broken femur, so I know what he said is wrong, the other Paramedic told me that we were certainly correct to phone 999 and every 999 crew that has attended in the past have also told us not to take chances as a broken hip/femur can be immediately life threatening due to the proximity of the femoral artery. I want to make a formal complaint about this, my manager is away at the moment and she is so lame she would not make a complaint as she is bone idle.
Would I be causing any problems by making this complaint off my own back in my own time?
I am so angry about his comments, I wont let this rest!
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Well done to you Ratter. Its a shame there arent more like you. The carers at MIL home are sometimes a waste of space.
We arrived to visit one evening to find her practically in a trance. Called a senior carer across who checked her blood pressure and said it was ok and that she would soon come around. We thought she had maybe had a TIA ? and insisted the doctor be called. An ambulance arrived and asked her the stupidest questions to check her mental state. Just asking her name would probably have done but they asked if she knew who the PM was ? SHE IS 96 and Im sure loads of younger folk would even know the answer to that one.
Anyway, after carting her off to a hospital 20 miles away when there is one just up the road, they discovered she had a bad urine infection, a kidney infection and we are still awaiting the results of something they are not telling us about.
I gather too, that they are supposed to call 999 if anyone falls as who knows what could be broken. This did happen at her other Home when she fell out of bed on her 3rd night there, and lay on the floor for hours. She ended up with pneumonia (?) Shes a tough old bird but still need a bit of TLC especially when we are paying over £1500 every 4 weeks for her to be there. You keep up the good work Ratter.
In my job, I meet a lot of amb men and paramedics, most are great but there are some nasty ones too and they forget that WE afre paying their wages
We arrived to visit one evening to find her practically in a trance. Called a senior carer across who checked her blood pressure and said it was ok and that she would soon come around. We thought she had maybe had a TIA ? and insisted the doctor be called. An ambulance arrived and asked her the stupidest questions to check her mental state. Just asking her name would probably have done but they asked if she knew who the PM was ? SHE IS 96 and Im sure loads of younger folk would even know the answer to that one.
Anyway, after carting her off to a hospital 20 miles away when there is one just up the road, they discovered she had a bad urine infection, a kidney infection and we are still awaiting the results of something they are not telling us about.
I gather too, that they are supposed to call 999 if anyone falls as who knows what could be broken. This did happen at her other Home when she fell out of bed on her 3rd night there, and lay on the floor for hours. She ended up with pneumonia (?) Shes a tough old bird but still need a bit of TLC especially when we are paying over £1500 every 4 weeks for her to be there. You keep up the good work Ratter.
In my job, I meet a lot of amb men and paramedics, most are great but there are some nasty ones too and they forget that WE afre paying their wages
Baldric >>I think that by complaining in your own time might be seen as going over your managers head and possibly cause problems for yourself in future.<<
Im well used to problems from my Manager, I have had to go over her head a few times, she doesnt like it but she knows im right and wont argue the matter, she is just an office girl that knows little about care IMO, we dont see eye to eye on many things, unfortunately money is far too important to worry about caring! My last running with her was when I kicked up merry hell when I was told that residents arent allowed to have any filling with their half of a baked potato! I went to the directors with it, they now have a choice of fillings with a whole baked potato:)) its the little things that make the difference, They just need a little respect, its not really difficult!
Im well used to problems from my Manager, I have had to go over her head a few times, she doesnt like it but she knows im right and wont argue the matter, she is just an office girl that knows little about care IMO, we dont see eye to eye on many things, unfortunately money is far too important to worry about caring! My last running with her was when I kicked up merry hell when I was told that residents arent allowed to have any filling with their half of a baked potato! I went to the directors with it, they now have a choice of fillings with a whole baked potato:)) its the little things that make the difference, They just need a little respect, its not really difficult!
Didnt say anything about prosecuting, ratter. the issue was to write the details down as that can be therapeutic in itself and to leave the emotion out. You then file it for if there is a next time or bin it.
My advice was to keep the emotion out of it as far as possible....as we all put spin on things - it's a natural process.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
My advice was to keep the emotion out of it as far as possible....as we all put spin on things - it's a natural process.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
you are right to be angry. you obviously use your sense in treating your patients and asking for help and he had a bad attitude. calm down! and think of your blood pressure - unfortunately some ambulance staff are idiots. they can't help it! i have had the same reaction when calling them into a mental health unit after an accident etc. and they sometimes don't seem to understand that we can't just stick people in a taxi to the local a+e. i always only call them when necessary and send a staff member with the patient, but some paramedics always seem to want to attend the more 'sexy' calls and think that because we are a hospital that we can deal with everything. you will meet complete Joy-sticks wherever you go - but you know when you are right and that's all that matters. you seem to treat your patients with care, attention, respect and safety - which is all they could ask for. now have a relaxing evening and a drinky-poos to calm the soul. lisa x
Ratter: it could have been a junior member of staff (trainee, new member of staff, etc) under the mentorship. It would have been unprofessional to give him a bollocking in front of the public and patients, but once the job is over words may have been said. Alternatively, he could have been an ***, and he will get knocked down a peg at some point.
The Other Half: asking who the PM is is part of a standard set of questions we use to ascertain a confusional state. We are not looking for David Cameron. Instead, we are seeing if they turn round and say Winston Churchill or Kermit The Frog to see if they are confused.
As for the A&E thing, we are under instruction to take a patient to the nearest APPROPRIATE hospital. Some hospitals will not accept trauma, some will not accept cardiac. Just because there is a hospital, doesn't mean they would take her.
With regards to the "calling 999 everytime someone falls", a fall will not rate highly unless there are other complicating factors. There are only so many ambulances on the road, and invariably they are always busy. Would you prefer that a Cardiac Arrest, RTC, or Febrile Convulsion is left unattended because, someone is lying on the floor? If she is on the floor then you have two options, wrap her up in a quilt, make her comfy, and wait; or pick her up yourself.
Finally, with regards to your "pay their wages" tripe. I pay tax, so I pay my own wages, plus I pay council tax so I also pay yours! It's attitudes like this that really grip me. We, as a service, are overstretched, underfunded, and treated like crap. Still, we have to put up with abuse from relatives "How dare we have to wait, my problem/ailment is far more important than whatever else you could have been at. I pay your wages after all!!"
LCG: That's a nice bit of vitriol there. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the pressure that the ambulance service is under. If a crew has suggested a taxi for a patient it is (probably) because that is what they feel you are using them for. Do you have any idea how many breaks are missed, and how many shifts overun due to misappropriate use of the ambulance service? And the worst culprits are other Health Care Professionals who really should know better.
Rant over
;)
The Other Half: asking who the PM is is part of a standard set of questions we use to ascertain a confusional state. We are not looking for David Cameron. Instead, we are seeing if they turn round and say Winston Churchill or Kermit The Frog to see if they are confused.
As for the A&E thing, we are under instruction to take a patient to the nearest APPROPRIATE hospital. Some hospitals will not accept trauma, some will not accept cardiac. Just because there is a hospital, doesn't mean they would take her.
With regards to the "calling 999 everytime someone falls", a fall will not rate highly unless there are other complicating factors. There are only so many ambulances on the road, and invariably they are always busy. Would you prefer that a Cardiac Arrest, RTC, or Febrile Convulsion is left unattended because, someone is lying on the floor? If she is on the floor then you have two options, wrap her up in a quilt, make her comfy, and wait; or pick her up yourself.
Finally, with regards to your "pay their wages" tripe. I pay tax, so I pay my own wages, plus I pay council tax so I also pay yours! It's attitudes like this that really grip me. We, as a service, are overstretched, underfunded, and treated like crap. Still, we have to put up with abuse from relatives "How dare we have to wait, my problem/ailment is far more important than whatever else you could have been at. I pay your wages after all!!"
LCG: That's a nice bit of vitriol there. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the pressure that the ambulance service is under. If a crew has suggested a taxi for a patient it is (probably) because that is what they feel you are using them for. Do you have any idea how many breaks are missed, and how many shifts overun due to misappropriate use of the ambulance service? And the worst culprits are other Health Care Professionals who really should know better.
Rant over
;)
I find that quite scary TBH
How did the ambulance crew know her leg wasn't broken without x-rays?
I work with young children and had cause to call 999 when one fell about 1.5 ft onto his elbow and couldn't move it
The ambulance man said it cant be broken because the child wasn't crying or 'in enough pain'. Turned out, after x-rays the elbow was shattered
FWIW I think you did exactly the right thing but complaining? Well, you know what you were told was incorrect, the choice is yours
How did the ambulance crew know her leg wasn't broken without x-rays?
I work with young children and had cause to call 999 when one fell about 1.5 ft onto his elbow and couldn't move it
The ambulance man said it cant be broken because the child wasn't crying or 'in enough pain'. Turned out, after x-rays the elbow was shattered
FWIW I think you did exactly the right thing but complaining? Well, you know what you were told was incorrect, the choice is yours
Thanks Sqad ;)
I know that not everyone in the Ambulance Service is perfect, and there are some idiots, numpties, and inexperienced nervous kids out there.
However, I will always try and put another viewpoint across.
If people feel really let down by the service they receive, then go to PALS. They will investigate fairly and robustly.
I know that not everyone in the Ambulance Service is perfect, and there are some idiots, numpties, and inexperienced nervous kids out there.
However, I will always try and put another viewpoint across.
If people feel really let down by the service they receive, then go to PALS. They will investigate fairly and robustly.
oj.......
\\How did the ambulance crew know her leg wasn't broken without x-rays?\\
If one took that attitude (quite a reasonable one) then ALL accidents should be X-Rayed. The hospitals couldn't cope with the volume of work.
Medicine is all about probabilities....one listens, one looks, one investigates and then one comes up with the "probabilities".
\\\The ambulance man said it cant be broken because the child wasn't crying or 'in enough pain'\\\
That is the remark of an inexperienced and poorly informed ambulance man.....we all make stupid remarks at times, the difference being that doctors make less than ambulance men...........;-)
\\How did the ambulance crew know her leg wasn't broken without x-rays?\\
If one took that attitude (quite a reasonable one) then ALL accidents should be X-Rayed. The hospitals couldn't cope with the volume of work.
Medicine is all about probabilities....one listens, one looks, one investigates and then one comes up with the "probabilities".
\\\The ambulance man said it cant be broken because the child wasn't crying or 'in enough pain'\\\
That is the remark of an inexperienced and poorly informed ambulance man.....we all make stupid remarks at times, the difference being that doctors make less than ambulance men...........;-)
I agree Bob, and I would never call out an ambulance unless I thought there is a problem and 9 times out of ten the patient will be taken to hospital as the paramedics are of the same opinion as me. I make no excuses for not being right every time but I also dont expect to be told im wasting their time.
I agree that calling an ambulance for every fall would be wasting their time even though that is what we are taught as First Aiders, that is why I would never do that.
When one of my residents 80+ years old has a fall and is complaining of severe hip pain and what appears to be a shortening of a limb I will call the ambulance every time.
I agree that calling an ambulance for every fall would be wasting their time even though that is what we are taught as First Aiders, that is why I would never do that.
When one of my residents 80+ years old has a fall and is complaining of severe hip pain and what appears to be a shortening of a limb I will call the ambulance every time.
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