My Mother In Law Has Alzhiemer And Brother In Law Has Lived With Her

[lilacben]

For years now. He has sent to my husband and there sister a order of protection for them to sign as respondents. We think he intends to sell mothers house and move. She isn't in fulltime care yet but goes to day center and has been assessed to the fact she will not have to go into a fulltime home for at least another year. My husband and sister does not want him to sell the house. Can they stop him.!

[dzug2]

If your brother in law gets Power of Attorney/Deputyship and said document contains no restriction about selling the property then he is free to do so.

If he gets those powers he is legally obliged to act in the interests of mother in law - not you, not himself

I detect an expensive (for all) battle with the court of protection coming up

[lilacben]

Many thanks to you all.
Ok can I please run over what you have told me so I can pass it on to my husband and sister inlaw.
1......If BIL goes through with this Court of Protection he may or may not be allowed to sell the house and move.The other two sibling will not be able to do anything to stop him.
2......But when MIL has to go into home full time they will take money from the house that was sold. To pay for Home costs. they will have whats left --£36000
3.......If they stay in the house ....shes goes into care..say a years time.....BIL will only be allowed to stay there until he finds alternative accommodation,according to the Will and then when it is sold the cost of the Home will come out of it then.

Now this is how I see what you all mean.....Am I correct??

So really he is wasting his time selling now.....if allowed to by court.

I am sure he is after moving smaller, putting mum finally in home and having the new dwelling to himself. ??

Now should the siblings sign the Respondent forms and return them or not?
What would happen if they do not sign them.?

Many thanks for all your knowledge.
Brenda

[dzug2]

q1 the other two siblings can make representations to the CoP that selling the house is not in MiL's best interests. A difficult case to make when it may well be the best course of action. Misuse of the funds thus obtained is a separate matter..

Last question - what do the respondent forms actually say? If they are seeking assent to BiL becoming Deputy then you can refuse or ask to be a co-Deputy.

Worst case is that the CoP will take over your MiL's affairs and run them themselves without necessarily taking much notice of you. Or the LA may do the same

A definition of MiL's best interests is that all her bills are paid and that when the time comes her nursing home fees are paid. It does not include maximising any inheritance by avoiding that

[woofgang]

dzug, I think I am right in saying that if the CoP take over Mil's affairs they may charge a fee?

[EDDIE51]

There is now no way out of paying the care home fees ( when/ if she goes in) out of the value of the house. From what you tell us MIL will need full care not just supported housing. The cost of full care will be at least £2000 a week.(£104,000 a year)
If you have an idea of the value of the house you can work out how long it will take until the remaining value is £36,000 .
In fact it is probably better to sell the house as soon as possible , the council can charge interest on the care fees which will increase the debit .
If BIL gets power of attorney he can not sell the house and keep the cash for himself but he could sell it to buy a smaller place for MIL and use the rest to pay care home fees. You need a solicitor on this case urgently , it is too complicated for us to give more than general advice.
Better contact AgeUk or Shelter the charities they can give advice free in cases like this.

[lilacben]

again thankyou.
Just one more question
Brother is over 60, say he goes ahead and sells the house now.......saying it is in the best interest. #
He buys another home.......same price as what he gets for this one. In his name
Can they make him sell it for care home fees then.?
and in the Will it says it is left three ways.....would that still apply of he has moved and it is now in his name.?
Brenda x

[dzug2]

==saying it is in the best interest. #
He buys another home.......same price as what he gets for this one. In his name ==

If he buys it in his name he has stolen it from your MiL - unless she is sufficiently aware of what she is doing to give it to him.


If the COP take over they certainly will charge a fee both setting up the arrangement and on an annual basis


The will is irrelevant until she dies

[lilacben]

Just had a phone call from BIL he has said he wants to sell the house with this order he has put in to the court. Because he wants to buy smaller and live on the money left over.! I just knew this is what he had in mind.!! This is in September he is planning on. SIL has pointed out he cannot do that as the house is left in mums Will to the three of them and he said Oh well I am going to as I must have somewhere to live.
There is now a New Order that says because he is 60, a pensioner and been living there for years the courts cannot take the house off of him....so he gets to live in it. Will this apply when MIL passes away? Can they get him out or is he safe now.?

[themas]

In view of what he has now said, if the Court of Protection papers have not yet been signed & returned by your husband & his sister they should refuse to sign them & make it clear in writing to him that he cannot sell the house & use any of the money for himself. They should also contact the CoP & make them aware of what is happening. Perhaps they should apply to CoP for deputyship themselves.

As already said, it may be that selling the house now would be in MiL's best interest but any new purchase should be in her name (assuming she is not mentally competent to decide anything different) & any money left over has to be accounted for & spent in her best interest. It seems you could not trust BiL to do that.

I don't know what the New Order you mention is. It sounds like the rule that a house cannot be sold to pay care fees if it is lived in by a relative over 60, but that is not new. If you ignore the issue of care fees, then what will happen depends on the exact wording of MiL's will, & on whether it specifically relates to the house she lives in now or is more generally worded about any house she owns. You say the will states the house is to be sold when BiL has found somewhere else to live. If there is no time limit placed on this it could be difficult to force him to take steps to do so.

Your husband & SiL could well do with some specialist solicitor advice, but for that to be comprehensive a copy of the will would need to be available.

[boxtops]

If he buys a new house with ALL the money, what happens to your third shares in the house, then, in your mother's will? That's not good enough. The house proceeds are 2/3rds yours, surely?

[pixie373]

The Will has no effect at all while the mother is alive. Nobody is entitled to anything until she dies.

[lilacben]

boxtops. I know this is why I am trying to make some sense of it all for my husband and his sister. But BIL has said now his intentions is to sell the house, buy cheaper and use the rest of the money to live on! He has actually said this to my SIL tonight.! I really do not know why he should assume he can do this. And he really thinks he can do it and leave the other two without a penny.!! it really amazes me.!

[lilacben]

pixie, yes you are very right, but if he gets the court of protection to take over her house and money now. He doesnt intend on there being any thing to share then as he wants another house now and use the money for himself and his mother I suppose he will say to live on.??
But from what I can gather he cannot buy a new house in his name.....as mother still alive and it is legally hers anyway. Is this right,?

It says on the COP 5 that SIL and my husband have. What is the role in these proceedings. and BIL has ticked Respondent and if they do not sign them and send back BIL will be treated as if he was the only one and then the others will not be able to have there say.

Oh dear this is such a horrible thing and I am really hating my BIL for putting the others through this.
I really dont know what I would do if I didnt have you all to help me.
Thankyou.

[birdwoman]

The whole point of Court of Protection is to stop people (relatives) helping themselves to the money & property of the incapacitated person. He can't sell the house without her permission or the permission of the court once the protection order is in place. If the house is in her name then he is not in a position to go ahead and sell her house. I'm no legal expert but earlier this year my mother had to go into a care home and it looked like I'd have to apply for CoP but fortunately I can apply for LPA now which is much better as if it's CoP every penny has to be accounted for to the courts and there is also a fee depending on the value of the estate. As stated earlier your husband & SiL need to get their names onto the CoP application - there is a cost but it's definitely worth it to protect your MiL's estate.

[Rosetta]

Write to The Court of Protection outlining your worries and telephone them for advice. You may need to use your own solicitor for advice

[EDDIE51]

PLEASE get a solicitor on to this case today ! As I said before it is too complicated to sort out in a discussion forum , you need urgent legal advice .

[lilacben]

EDDIES... Yes thankyou. Have made an appointment with a solicitor today.

And would like to say a big thankyou to everyone who has written a reply. Your are all very knowledgeable on this subject and we have found it very helpful in getting an idea of what is involved.

Brenda x

[EDDIE51]

Let us know what the solicitor says , he / she should write to BIL and the court to make it clear the house can not be sold without Mums agreement.

[lilacben]

OK well solicitors has told my husband he must fill out the cop5 format saying he doesn't agree with it and says he wants to be considered for co deputy. And has disagreed with his brothers actions. He has also written a separate letter stating the situation and why he and his sister do not want the house sold. His sister has written a note to say she also disagrees w

[lilacben]

With her other brothers decision. We all wish Bil would cancel the whole thing and just carry on as it was. Many thanks again x