Appeal By Gypsy Travelers To Build A Permanent Site Next To Our Village

[eastern]

Some fields came up for sale on the outskirts of the village where my family live in the Darlington area. The fields have been used to keep horses and other animals in over the years but then were sold to "persons unknown". It later transpires that they had been sold to some members of the Gypsy community and they then applied for planning consent to construct a permanent residential caravan site with two amenity buildings and hard standing for a number of caravans. This has obviously been met with considerable out rage by the nearby village who got together to raise several thousand pounds and wrote in excess of 200 letters of complaint, the most the council had ever received against a planning application. Their application was unanimously rejected by the council much to the delight of the nearby residents. Now as you may gather they, the Gypsy's have appealed, every body has resigned themselves to the fact that the appeal will more than likely succeed. According to what the council have said they do not have the funds to fight this application and the Gypsy's have employed a top barrister to fight their case. I know this seems a lost cause but has anybody got any useful input on this situation. Thanks in advance.

[kylesmum]

He invited them Tamborine.I think Sharingans made that clear.Just the same as if you invited people to say ,camp on your land for a weekend

The way I read it was that not all people are or should be tarred with the same brush.

This is way off topic now anyway, it's becoming personal.

[tamborine]

you might get away for 10days invite but any longer or permanence would need PM. Am just curious, I wasn't having a go at Sharigan.

[jackthehat]

Firstly, you need to form some sort of group committee made up from the Objectors........and elect a chair-person.

Secondly, the chair-person needs to make an appointment with the Planning Department and discuss 'exactly' why the original application was refused. They should ask for copies of all relevant information, i.e. Sections of the Local Plan, under which the application was declined...and all relevant legislation, etc.

It is true that many Planning Departments simply do not have the funds to fight protracted appeals, but the Pressure-groups willingness to act as the Councils 'legs' can reduce the financial impact; especially if they only have the chair-person to deal with rather than be swamped with a large volume of correspondence/'phonecalls from concerned villagers.

Once you have details of the legal footing upon which the Refusal was based, you need to find out on what grounds the Appeal is based.

You may wish to consider engaging a Planning Consultant, these are often people who have had experience working in LA Planning Departments.

[eastern]

Firstly thank you everyone for your considerable input on this topic. The area in question is not actually Hurworth but is in the Darlington B/council area. As some one pointed out we did ask the local planning officer the hypothetical question "if we owned the land could we build on it"? The answer was No. The original application was for 8 caravans now it seems to be expanding to 8 caravans (permanent) plus 8 touring caravans with the possibility of additional "family" caravans coming in, so basically they will have carte blanche to put in as many as they like and we will end up with a Dale Farm situation. It is Ok for people to put forward their opinions for and against the Gypsy community but lets be practical here and say they are hardly going to enhance the area. Unlike Hurworth this village is a sought after area but has a wide variety of housing from council houses to large private properties so snobbery doesn't come into it. We have a action group with a spokes person and as we have said a "fighting fund" to attempt to block this. The land was used for grazing and still is and is on the old green belt of the village. We also have a Planning consultant on our side but as you will no doubt be aware the Gypsy's appear to have limitless funds to fight this one of the upside of not being registered with HMRC. Please keep the input coming in on this as it is very helpful. Thank you again.

[factor-fiction]

Hello Eastern:

You said: " as you will no doubt be aware the Gypsy's appear to have limitless funds to fight this one of the upside of not being registered with HMRC. "

It could well be that the barrister is doing the work pro bono, maybe because he/she has some sympathy with the way travellers seem to be treated with contempt.

If you have evidence that they are defrauding the tax man in some way then you should report the info asap

[eastern]

Have now got some more information that is very relevant.
1. Apparently Great Crested Newts have been found on the site which is adjacent to a small beck/stream
2. There is no footpath into the nearest village.
3. The local school is very sought after and is at full capacity at present.
4. This is rural site and should remain so and has no services at all.

[jackthehat]

Are those matters included in the Refusal Notice?

You now need to find out on what grounds the Travellers have lodged their appeal.

[naomi24]

A company wanted land near us to build an industrial site, and the discovery of Great Crested Newts was instrumental in the refusal to grant permission.

[Khandro]

Nothing to do with gypsy encampments, but I was once involved in a campaign to prevent the erection of an appalling and inappropriate piece of 'art' in a Cotswold market town. I discovered that letters of protest were first vetted by one individual (who appeared to support the proposal) and he made his own selection of what should be copied for the committee members to see.
I found this form of censorship outrageous, so I found a list of members of the planning committee and sent each one their own copies to be certain they had the full facts and of the local feelings on the matter and we won.

[eastern]

Yes these items were part of the original refusal. What they appear to be doing is appealing on the grounds they are reducing the number of caravans on the site to try and swing the application in their favour.

[jackthehat]

If those are the grounds for the Refusal, it shouldn't really matter what they try to do to mitigate their Application......the refusal *ought* to stand.

I anticipate that they will offer to construct a footpath to the village to discharge that part of the refusal, but the other items ought to see it off.

[eastern]

"Jake" you couldn't possibly fit a footpath onto the road, it is a narrow and very dangerous road due to it's nature. It is about 1 a mile from the village and the footpath would need to encroach on other peoples land that they do not own.

[jackthehat]

Well, that stymies that for them.........

[joko]

are they new age travellers/hippies etc - or actual gypsies?
have you actually seen them or met them?

the two are very different.
I would welcome the new age travellers - having spent time with some of them in the past.
sadly after watching the tv shows about gypsies i would not be so keen.

[tamborine]

5. Will create a national precedent.

Landowners at the ready to reap similar reward if PP is won…

[themorrigan]

joko, thats what I was thinking about the new age travellers. I would be quite happy to invite them onto my land for a while, I have found all to be clean, care about the environment and respect peoples belongings. My great grandma was Romany and I can vaguely remember going to visit spotless caravans where our tea leaves were read, when they went to Appleby Horse Fair. The 'Gypsies' these days are a far cry from the real Romanies.

[tamborine]

A field of travellers recently were in situ 25yds down the road. Their motor homes were new upmarket & spotless along with their 4x4s that pulled some posh caravans. Am told they had a 'blessing' to attend. They made a lot of noise with kids & dogs running amok.

The field is filled with rubbish bags that foxes have spread & stinks of excrement some of which they soured the well with. The landlowner is abroad and nowt can be done till he returns.

[Mike25]

Look there is up sides to having traveller in the area.
1) They race horses on the roads that are enjoyable to watch
2) They have arranged boxing fights that you can bet on
3) They will spent there money in the bars
4) They move around alot so you will meet new people
5) They will do your tarmac and guttering for a cheap price
6) They will hunt and keep the wildlife from getting out of control
7) They will offer you goods at knock down prices
8) They will have massive weddings that you can watch
9) The only marry cousins so your daughters will be safe
10) They will bring other trade to the area from other traveller

So I don't see the big issue.

[Mike25]

Its when they steal your pets for bait, thats what I don't like.

[Khandro]

Mike 25; //So I don't see the big issue.// Really? As someone who doesn't want to bet on either horse racing on the roads or boxing matches, and doesn't feel at a loss for company in bars, 1 inch thick tarmac bubbling up with weeds in no time after it is laid at an exorbitant price,( an elderly friend was marched under duress to a cash point to pay these bastards in cash) I abhor hunting of wildlife, and I don't give a toss whom they marry, or want witness their weddings. Either I am missing out on something big, or if it's all so laudable perhaps you should be off to join the raggle taggle gypsies ---O!