Neighbouring landlord's smoking ban

[Chrysaor]

Hi. I own a flat in a purpose-built block. Some years ago the flat owners purchased the freehold. The management company is composed of 'directors' who were elected or appointed before I moved in. They are drawn from the ranks of the flat owners.The neighbouring flat, whose balcony adjoins mine, is owned by a relative of one of the directors and is let out. Eight years ago the owner of this flat decided to ban smoking in this flat by tenants but continued to let the flat to a series of smokers. They either smoke on the balcony which adjoins mine, talking loudly at all hours of the day and night and banging the balcony door, or open a window and smoke/shout out (again this could happen any time of the day or night). Even if I reason with one set of tenants and there is a moderate improvement, soon they leave and the whole thing starts all over again. The Chairman of our management company states that dealing with this problem is 'awkward' as it is a director's relative who owns the flat and has imposed the ban. The council noise abatement department are not interested as it is not always electronic noise but more likely loud voices and windows banging and I am told that there is no legislation to protect me from the effects of the smoking. I have tried every angle and source of help I can think of, short of engaging a solicitor (the flat owner's son is a solicitor) but where on earth do I go next?

'Sleepless'

[bednobs]

well you could always sell up and move. There is nothing in law stopping a LL imposing a "no smoking" rule in his flat i'm afraid. I don't think engaging a solicitor will help in the slightest.

[dotty.]

Put signs up on your balcony saying:
'No noise or smoking beyond this point, ignoring this notice is a serious offence'

[dotty.]

sorry *smoke

[Chrysaor]

Thanks bednobs, problem with selling and moving is that now is not the right time and I would have to declare the neighbour trouble to any prospective buyer, putting them right off.
Dotty: there is a small waist-high wall which separates their balcony from mine, so they don't actually infringe on it, but are perfectly audible, smellable and visible.

[bednobs]

i feel for you - nusiance neighbours are just crap.
i think your best bet is to talk to the neighbours in a calm friendly way

[dotty.]

'No noise or smoke beyond this point......'

it is meant to be a light hearted dig at them, because of course you cannot control noise or smoke travelling...............never mind, just thought that it would get your point across with good humour

[Chrysaor]

But even if I do speak to them, soon the problems start again - for instance, the three who are currently there have now replaced one tenant, and got a new smoker in - she had v. little idea of the problems until she came in drunk last Sat. night and thought nothing of kicking up a racket at 2.40am!

[bednobs]

surely most tenancies last 6 months? anyway, just keep reminding them

[ladybirder]

Could you have a word with the owner of the flat directly? It hardly seems fair that he has removed the smoking problem from his flat to yours. And is he using a letting agent? If he is, and he has told them he wants no smoking tenants why are they letting it to smokers? Won't they be breaking the terms of their tenancy? I would certainly raise the issue at the next Residents Association meeting as it is possible the noise and smoke could be disturbing others (above/below). As legislation against smokers is being tightened all the time it might be possible to speak to someone at your local council who can advise you.

[wolf63]

Could the owner not just agree to rent to 'non-smokers' only? It might be that he would be horrified at the situation that he has created with his no smoking in flat policy.

I hope you get it sorted out.

[S_C]

I am sure not all the tennents would have been that heavey handed or loudly spoken as to be considered noisey.
If the balcony is in a recess of the building you occupy then noise could be carried / transmitted more loudly than it would appear to be by those people making the noise.
However this does not help your situation,

Flats " purpose built or not " are well known for being noisier than houses. Simply because most flats will have 3 connecting dwellings unlike a standard house which only has 2 .

Regarding the smoking and relevent smoke effects you face the only advice i could offer is for you to close your windows and balacony door so the smoke does not come into your flat. " if these people are smoking outside then they are already following the best available course of action to keep the " smell and smoke effects to a minimum "
" you state there is a smoking ban on the flat . Do you mean that particular flat or the whole building " not that it makes much differance as they are smoking outside.

Seeking a solicitor will do you little to no good at all , simply put . you would need to do this for each new tennant and that is just going to get expensive.
The landlord removing one bad tennant can mean replacing that tennant with one worse. " remembering most flats are either first homes " for the young" or last homes for people in later years"

The simplest and from what i can see the cheepest way to solve this problem is to move to another property. prefurably a house " for obvious reasons " or if it must be a flat maybe somewhere that has a minimum age limit " as these do seem to be quieter"

[bednobs]

step away from the quotation marks!

[S_C]

no :PPP

[Chrysaor]

Thanks, everybody, particularly Ladybirder. I did speak to the owner some years ago, politely, but have since been told 'you should hear what she says about you'. I have also put it to management that I am lodging an objection to the continued letting of the flat (permission is needed before we let the flats out) but have had no reply. To my knowledge, and it has been difficult to get information, a letting agency is used but I have no information on what the stipulations about smoking are - my request for the sublease has likewise been stonewalled. There may be a residents' association but it has not met for some years. I am grateful for the advice about solicitors as it does seem that this would be a recurring problem and the same rigmarole would have to be gone through every time. The Council and others have confirmed that there is nothing to protect me in current anti-smoking legislation.

[ladybirder]

Is there anything in your lease that could help you as regards the nuisance being caused to you by the letting of this flat? In lots of leases there is a clause stating something like no noise to be heard after 11pm or some such and it is enforced. Another thought, have you got legal cover on your household insurance or any other insurance you have? I was talking to a solicitor within minutes when I needed advice about a flat my daughter was renting. Never cost me a penny and it was on a Saturday afternoon. I think the lack of consideration shown to you by the ruling clique in your block is appalling.

[Chrysaor]

Thanks again. Yes, there is stuff in the lease about being able to live in your flat in 'quiet enjoyment'. However, the management company would prefer me to pursue this avenue legally myself rather than get involved, and I believe they may be indemnified in the lease. I don't think I have access to free legal advice anywhere but will check all policies and memberships. I am also tempted to print out this entire thread and leave a copy for the Chairman, as I think some good points have been raised.

[whiskeryron]

This may sound stupid because I am not familiar with the setup of your flat but would it be possible to erect a framed plastic affair at the side of your balcony which would stop the smoke reaching you ? It wouldn't stop the noise of course but may cut it down a little.Ron.

[Chrysaor]

Ron, this is likely to forbidden under the building conditions, but worth looking into. Thanks. It would be nice if the neighbouring flat funded it.

[ladybirder]

Or a sort of hedging screen? Might not be as effective as Ron's idea but surely they don't ban plants. Is it only you that has to abide by the rules then Chrysaor?
PS: You could hide a mic or cc camera in it and gather your evidence:-)

[Chrysaor]

Not so far fetched as it sounds... the owner's solicitor son spoke to my partner once and said 'you must tape record the noise' (otherwise they wouldn't believe me).