Jokes11 mins ago
Sony's handling of redundancies: employment law question
19 Answers
I know someone who works at Sony UK in London. Last Wednesday they were suddenly told that due to the Japan HQ deciding to redistribute global jobs in favour of itself, some employees would be made redundant THE NEXT DAY and they wouldn't know until they arrived on Thursday morning.
So my friend obviously had a sleepless night and arrived the next morning to find the lobby full of security guards. She and others were shepherded one way, a load of others taken off another way. She was taken to her office and found to her relief she was keeping her job.
Those who were taken off in the other direction, she heard later, had their passes confiscated and their belongings - taken from their desks the previous night by security - handed to them, told to leave the building, and escorted out.
Is this cold, inhuman method of laying people off allowable under employment law? With so little notice, and no sensitivity? I'm not naive, I know this happens, but it's repulsive and a disgusting way to treat people.
So my friend obviously had a sleepless night and arrived the next morning to find the lobby full of security guards. She and others were shepherded one way, a load of others taken off another way. She was taken to her office and found to her relief she was keeping her job.
Those who were taken off in the other direction, she heard later, had their passes confiscated and their belongings - taken from their desks the previous night by security - handed to them, told to leave the building, and escorted out.
Is this cold, inhuman method of laying people off allowable under employment law? With so little notice, and no sensitivity? I'm not naive, I know this happens, but it's repulsive and a disgusting way to treat people.
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I agree but it seems to be the way it works. When I was made redundant I was called into the office with no prior warning and told to go home that afternoon. That was it, I had no job. The company I went to work for after that made people redundant and instead of just telling everyone who was going, they made each person come to the office and give reasons as to why they should be able to keep their job. They basically had to beg to keep their job. Luckily for me, I wasn't on the list of people to go but left anyway after seeing 2 years of appauling man management.
Perhaps it's better just to get it done and out the way though. A bit like pulling of a plaster. There is no point in drawing it out and making it harder for people.
Perhaps it's better just to get it done and out the way though. A bit like pulling of a plaster. There is no point in drawing it out and making it harder for people.
milly143 while I accept you clearly don't like the way these things are done I think the idea it's better to just kick them out quickly rather than drag it out is small justification of a horrible way to treat human beings. If people are given notice there are various things they can do to prepare them for their joblessness. Plus it's basic courtesy to let people know in advance their life is about to change due to other people's decisions. To treat them as potential criminals in the process is rubbing salt, acid and caustic soda into the wound.
i think it is done for business reasons - if people knew they were under threat of redundancy, they may well try to nick clients, or undermine the firm. The people who were asked to leave would have been paid as if they had been given notice, so it's not like money coming in one day and not the next
Yes bednobs is correct, it is done that way to protect the business in case staff try to take any information or sabotage any systems and so on. E have had to do it once where I work with someone who was dismissed over a disciplinary. It was an awful thing to do to anyone, but the reasons are valid in business.
How very sad to see such shoulder-shrugging acceptance of this revolting practice. We really do just take it as an accepted thing. And i think that reduces us further. As i said - and as your response chelle7272 bears out - as well as deciding to end someone's employment, we also assume they are devious and possibly even criminal, so therefore they must be physically ejected immediately. Perhaps if redundancy was handled in a humane and sensitive way, no-one would even consider using their notice period to try to harm the company.
By the way chelle7272 I didn't mean that to sound like a go at you, more the whole situation and overall reaction many of us will have to this kind of thing - "oh well, it's nasty but the company has to do it in its own interests." It's upsetting and angering to think that the corporate culture has driven us to thinking such things.
By the way chelle7272 I didn't mean that to sound like a go at you, more the whole situation and overall reaction many of us will have to this kind of thing - "oh well, it's nasty but the company has to do it in its own interests." It's upsetting and angering to think that the corporate culture has driven us to thinking such things.
I agree joolee, it wasn't intended to be a shoulder shrugging response - just a statement of fact, it doesn't mean I like it.
unfortunately people have used their notice period to do such things, and consequences can be very serious. It is a sghame that this means the majority of decent honest people have to suffer.
unfortunately people have used their notice period to do such things, and consequences can be very serious. It is a sghame that this means the majority of decent honest people have to suffer.
this is the third round of redundancies at sony in the last 5 or so years and each one has been handled exactly the same, and totally within the law. it's a little naive to believe that if redundancies were handled in a different way then no-one would consider trying to harm the company, life's just not like that as many companies have learned through bitter experience.
as far as i'm aware, as many employees as possible whose jobs were 'at risk' were offered alternative jobs within the company.
as far as i'm aware, as many employees as possible whose jobs were 'at risk' were offered alternative jobs within the company.
joolee, perhaps you don't quite understand the sensitivity of some of the stuff that sony handles, and the huge impact it could have on the whole company (and therefore on all the employees) if someone on notice who remained in their post had a mind to cause even a small amount of trouble. the consquences and money involved would be horrendous and the potential for many, many more people to lose their jobs would be greatly increased.
unfortunately this is the way things are, legally, dealt with. the other thing to remember is that times like this are an opportunity for a company to cut out some 'dead wood' and keep the company staffed by the best people, which again is in the best interests of those like your friend who are still employed.
perhaps this is the first time you've heard of redundancies being handled like this? believe you me, this is nothing new and just how it's done.
unfortunately this is the way things are, legally, dealt with. the other thing to remember is that times like this are an opportunity for a company to cut out some 'dead wood' and keep the company staffed by the best people, which again is in the best interests of those like your friend who are still employed.
perhaps this is the first time you've heard of redundancies being handled like this? believe you me, this is nothing new and just how it's done.
If you get hold of the biograohy of Sony's founder (I forget the title and name), you'll find a sentence "...a job with Sonyis a job for life..."
A copy did the rounds of my factory when Sony bought us out. I recalled it (with Blessings- er, not) when our operation was closed with no offer of relocation. I bet a lot of people in Bridgend had similar experiences.
Mind you, I don't blame the Japanese. The only mistake they made was to leave the present brit management in place: food industry ("a manager can manage anything") twerps with no feeling for electronics of music.
I do miss the staff sakes, though...
A copy did the rounds of my factory when Sony bought us out. I recalled it (with Blessings- er, not) when our operation was closed with no offer of relocation. I bet a lot of people in Bridgend had similar experiences.
Mind you, I don't blame the Japanese. The only mistake they made was to leave the present brit management in place: food industry ("a manager can manage anything") twerps with no feeling for electronics of music.
I do miss the staff sakes, though...
No ethandron, as i said in my question header, it isn't the first time I've heard of it and in a previous job I've witnessed it happen right in front of me. But that doesn't mean I have to adopt the "it just happens" attitude, I'm much more comfortable being disgusted by it. The "it just happens" viewpoint conveniently sidesteps the fact we are dealing with actual people with livelihoods, feelings and dignity, many of whom could in no way be regarded as "dead wood" (what a vile way to categorise people). That kind of atitude contributes to the creeping dehumanising of life.
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ok then, instead of dead wood, which is a commonly used and well known term, how about 'those who don't pull their weight, aren't very good at their job, are the least conscientious', etc., in fact many of those sorts of people you probably work with yourself, i'm sure we all know similar types and have a moan about them...
of course you don't have to adopt any attitude you're not happy with, i'm not saying you do. nor am i saying i agree with what sony and many other companies do. but they are working within the law, which is what your original question asked, and these laws have been put in place to protect ALL concerned in those situations, employer and employee.
'contributing to the creeping dehumanising of life' - oh dear, never been accused of that before. i prefer to think of it as living in the real world.
i'm glad your friend still has a job.
of course you don't have to adopt any attitude you're not happy with, i'm not saying you do. nor am i saying i agree with what sony and many other companies do. but they are working within the law, which is what your original question asked, and these laws have been put in place to protect ALL concerned in those situations, employer and employee.
'contributing to the creeping dehumanising of life' - oh dear, never been accused of that before. i prefer to think of it as living in the real world.
i'm glad your friend still has a job.
You are right I did originally ask if this was legal, and you and others have confirmed it is.
Yes of course there are slackers in most organisations. And yes of course anyone with that lack of work ethic sets themselves up for a potential fall in this kind of situation. I know the term deadwood is commonly used, but I mentioned it partly to highlight that many of the now-jobless are not slackers, they are very unlucky - and possibly even more galling, some of the true slackers have escaped the chop. Again, accepting and using a term like deadwood feeds into the way we are, by increments, taking the humanity and dignity out of the workplace. That is happening - has happened - whatever you might say or whatever filter you choose to apply to it. And unfortunately, that is indeed the real world.
I live in the real world too, and have myself narrowly escaped this kind of horrible treatment. While yes it might seem innocent or naive, I don't care, I'll continue to react to it with disgust.
Yes of course there are slackers in most organisations. And yes of course anyone with that lack of work ethic sets themselves up for a potential fall in this kind of situation. I know the term deadwood is commonly used, but I mentioned it partly to highlight that many of the now-jobless are not slackers, they are very unlucky - and possibly even more galling, some of the true slackers have escaped the chop. Again, accepting and using a term like deadwood feeds into the way we are, by increments, taking the humanity and dignity out of the workplace. That is happening - has happened - whatever you might say or whatever filter you choose to apply to it. And unfortunately, that is indeed the real world.
I live in the real world too, and have myself narrowly escaped this kind of horrible treatment. While yes it might seem innocent or naive, I don't care, I'll continue to react to it with disgust.
My husband who works for Sony was absolutely apalled at this. One of his close associates was made redundant and had his desk cleared out for him, one draw was locked too - nothing sinister in it, just a spare set of car keys and an MP3 player, but never the less there they were in the box he was handed.
I've just remembered... true story which explains a lot of the stories here.
I'll not name names to proyect the innocent....
Scene: a Sony plant somewhere in the UK. Sales are in decline as technology changes. Managers don't read the signs, or see what's coming. They ended up cutting a shift.
They did some good things: lots of advance notice, a jobclub set up in canteen, unions fully informed.
On their last night, the outgoing shift wrecked the joint. Floor sweepings in the plastic moulding hoppers, etc. £1000s of damage and lost production.
So what happened when further redundancies became necessary? There was no warning.. Extra security led them to the entrance foyer, where they got their cards.
Mind you, the company did fail in one way. The management had been recruited mainly from the food industry, which had done well in the previous recession.. People have to eat... Trouble is, they had no feeling for the core businesses of Sony. They did not see new media and products coming, and didn't listen to those who read the runes right. The Sony plants in Holland, managed mainly by engineers, did see it coming, and positioned themselves to shift to new products.
It's not the Sony problem- it's the British problem. Look at the collapse of great TV companies like Granada, and British Airways, and think of the Irish boom which led to the hiring of Irish foodie managers.
I'll not name names to proyect the innocent....
Scene: a Sony plant somewhere in the UK. Sales are in decline as technology changes. Managers don't read the signs, or see what's coming. They ended up cutting a shift.
They did some good things: lots of advance notice, a jobclub set up in canteen, unions fully informed.
On their last night, the outgoing shift wrecked the joint. Floor sweepings in the plastic moulding hoppers, etc. £1000s of damage and lost production.
So what happened when further redundancies became necessary? There was no warning.. Extra security led them to the entrance foyer, where they got their cards.
Mind you, the company did fail in one way. The management had been recruited mainly from the food industry, which had done well in the previous recession.. People have to eat... Trouble is, they had no feeling for the core businesses of Sony. They did not see new media and products coming, and didn't listen to those who read the runes right. The Sony plants in Holland, managed mainly by engineers, did see it coming, and positioned themselves to shift to new products.
It's not the Sony problem- it's the British problem. Look at the collapse of great TV companies like Granada, and British Airways, and think of the Irish boom which led to the hiring of Irish foodie managers.
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