guilty at magistrate court

[ste777]

hi, if you plead guilty at magistrates court, because its more convenient then going to trail as you cant get the evidence to prove your innocence. if you put this in writing to the magistrate, "im pleading guilty but dont accept my guilt as its immposible to get the evidence i need to prove my innocence" would that magistrate be able to decide not to accept guilty, and either dismiss the case or decide to procede to trial. eg : dvla say you dont have licence after being stopped by police. you go to court and say i have licence but the dvla have messed my records up (been done a lot) so its not in dvla's interest to admit to the mistake as they will then open a minefield of legal actions against them, would the magistrate look at this as an unfair prosicution, as the defense wouldnt be able to get the records they needed?
any idea's?

[BAKERS DOZEN]

If you have a licence why not just produce it to the Court.

[Buenchico]

If you tell a court that you're pleading guilty even though you're not, the court is obliged to enter a plea of 'not guilty' on your behalf and proceed to trial.

[ste777]

its a friend, he lost his licence, applied to dvla to get replacement, and they sent him back a provisionla one, passed test years ago, so the dvla or dsa destroy all records and cant produce the test cert as dvla shred them.

[sherrardk]

Has this got anything to do with your previous question?

[BAKERS DOZEN]

Has he ever had to produce his licence to his workplace or his insurance company? Maybe one of those could have a copy. I have to produce mine at work each year.

[ste777]

no, he has over 10 years of insurance docs, but never had to produce it for his work. he told me he was going to ask to be considered for a absolute discharge, but that would still leave him with a crim rec?

[New Judge]

As Chris has said, if the Magistrates believe your guilty plea is “equivocal” (that is, not a clear acceptance of your guilt but one made, perhaps, for the sake of convenience) they are very likely to refuse to accept it and instead enter a not guilty plea and order the matter to go to trial. In writing to the Bench as you suggest they will certainly gain this impression.

As far as the trial goes, it is not for the defendant to prove anything. The prosecution (in this case the DVLA) has to prove the issue beyond reasonable doubt. In cases such as this they have to prove a negative – that is, that a licence was not held, or a test was not passed. I’m sure they’re used to it otherwise anybody who had not passed a test could insist that at some time they had held a full licence. However, it will be for the Magistrates to decide based on the evidence presented on the day. The DVLA will simply insist their records are infallible. In his defence your friend should be prepared to produce some evidence – even if it is only verbal – that he had passed a test.

An Absolute Discharge is unlikely to be awarded in the case of a conviction. If the Magistrates believe your friend's account in preference to that of the DVLA they must acquit him. In any case an Absolute Discharge is simply a sentencing option and a conviction will still be recorded. Also any other appropriate orders such as penalty points or a ban will still be imposed.

[ste777]

thanks new judge. will the magistrates take into account that by pleading guilty, as due to lack of funds, would not be able to take it to trial? and if he was taken to trial, does he have to attend or can evidence be submitted via paperwork/solicitor ect? he is worried about a trial as he's not confident the best of times, can a trial take place without him present

[ste777]

also, if they refused the guilty plea, then at the trial he stood up and pleaded guilty, then that would be a waste of time and money, seems to beat the objective? just because the magistrates decide to not accept it, they would have no choice at the trial? no law expert, but that would seem daft

[sara3]

he must attend his own trial, or a warrant could be issued for his arrest.

he should only plead guilty if he is guilty. the court will probably not accept an equivocal guilty plea. once he has pleaded guilty he would have a criminal record. he really needs to think through what he is doing.

[ste777]

would getting someone to sign an affidavit help? does the magistrates court accept this or would they just take the dvla's word that thier database is never wrong due to the fantastic staff they have inputting the info?

[ChuckFickens]

The DVLA have also been known to attempt to prosecute for fraud when people have produced evidence that the DVLA have made a mistake with driving licenses!

http://www.motorcycle...10-dvla-licence-hell/

[divlong]

I had to renew my licence a couple of years ago. Somehow they put an expiry date of 2032 on it (photo licences are only valid for 10 years). I was about to go abroad where I would be renting a car and was unsure if they would accept it as valid. After several phone calls I eventually had to go to Swansea and show the new licence to the woman at the counter before they would believe me. Turned out it was a mistake by the people whio handle medical conditions.

It actually took the woman at the DVLA about 20 minutes to convince her colleagues in the computer department that she was holding a piece of plastic that disagreed with their records!