Jamie Bulger, Venebles and Thomson

[stevie1time]

To begin,i have children that i adore and are my life. My son Daniel was two years old when James Bulger was deserted by our so called God..Since that day my belief hasnt gone but my faith has..So the killers have new identities and we as a civilised nation think we have done right in letting them live their lives whilst we question. So,question...IF YOUR daughter came home and showed you the man that she wants to and WILL marry. You go to the wedding,you give your child away..Then you find out his real name is.YEP YOUVE GUESSED,and he and his friend murdered,brutally a child,need i say more than..WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY ARE>>>

[NORMANTHEDOG]

why do you, have the right to know.

[stevie1time]

The question is self explanatory my friend,you obviously dont have children? But if you do,then wouldnt you want to protect them from anything. Yes we all deserve a second chance,for maybe lets say,cheating on your mrs,and vice versa,or maybe stealing or lying,,,but to commit murder,(i am not saying self defence,or through years of an abusive partner,)and that of an innocent two year old child,to do that you give up your right to a second chance,and your human rights. As a parent and law abiding,tax paying citizen of our once great country,i/we have the right to know who and where they are,so i can protect my family and friends.

[tubeway]

Does your religion not preach forgiveness?

ALSO


While I think that what they did was terrible and they deserved to be punished. They were children themselves when they commited the crime. They have had time to reflect and to grow into adults. They (I hope) regret what they have done and have to live with this for the rest of their lives.

Let me ask you - If one of YOUR children comitted a horrible act - then regretted and learned the seriousness of what they had done - would you hate them for ever.

It is an emotive subject - but it is because of people who can not forgive that these people can not get on with their lives and as such HAVE A RIGHT FOR PEOPLE NOT TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY ARE

[meglet]

This is always going to be an emotive topic and the reason we are still talking about it all these years later is because the killers were children. For some reason this fact seems to make people more, not less, bent on revenge towards Thompson and Venables. What they did was hideous but were they born evil or were they themselves victims of years of neglect and abuse? Not a question easily answered. The fact that they were children at the time means that they have now been given dispensation and, in my view, this was the correct course of action.

They have now served the time that the law decided they should serve and I should imagine they got considerable counselling whilst inside therefore they are unlikely to be considered dangerous.

There are plenty of evil people out there that have committed horrendous crimes against children. Why single out Thompson and Venables?

[noxlumos]

I'm sorry but you do not have a right to know their wherabouts and I AM a parent before you tar me with the brush of not understanding the parental need to protect.
We have a justice system in place which by definition has to be adhered to. The mentality of the lynch mob must never prevail, or we cease to have any justice at all, and that is truly a terrible thing.
What they did was awful, beyond the comprehension of most people, but you cannot allow that atrocious act to erode the framework of our justice system and we must behave like civilised people.
If my daughter brought one of those young men home, I would evaluate him as I would any other man on who he is standing before me and what lessons he has learned from his own life exerience. If I felt he was unsuitable I would speak with her and point out why, but his past actions are not an automatic marker that the man he is now has not grown beyond the evils of the deeds he did as a child. What he did then does not make him who he is now necessarily, and that is what you are missing.

[stevie1time]

Emotive subject it may be,in answer to question,if one of my children had commited such a heinous crime then???for starters it would never happen because my children are brought up,how can you put it PROPPER......but none of you have answered the question????which is if you were the mother or father of young James Bulger,or of any other young innocent child whose life has been brutally taken,,,,,would you not want to exact revenge..the bible says eye for an eye etc etc and i am not religous...every day MR and Mrs Bulger have to look in the mirror knowing that they did not protect their child,they live with that every day,but to also have to live with the fact that their childs killers can live a normal life...could any of you truly in your hearts forgive?????

[tubeway]

I would want JUSTICE, as revenge could make me as bad as they are.
The original question was not "would you want revenge" but "we should know who they are"
I have no doubt that Denise Bulger regrets leaving her son outside the butchers shop and always will (I always thought she was wrong to do this as you do not leave 2 year old children unattended outside the shop).
It does say in the bible "an eye for an eye" but it also says to turn the other cheek.
I am sure that it will not happen to you - but please answer my question - IF a child of yours was led astray and committed an evil act, would you forgive them or hate them for ever.
I think that the children who comitted this terrible crime 14 years ago have moved on now, and you should too.

[stevie1time]

I have to say no,i admit yes the subject has wavered from the original question onto revenge,that is not what wanted it to lead to,but since we are at that point,if i was in the shoes of a parent whose child has been murdered for someone else sick kicks,lets say for instance Holly and Jessica,maybe my parenting is different to everyone elses,but having a child,bringing them up.nuturing them,loving them,protecting them is a lifetime job,but to have them taken away from you by someone who ends their life and more or less your own as a parent for their few minutes of gratification and then dumping their bodies as though they are nothing,i am sorry,but i would spend every minute and every breath of my life waiting for the moment to exact my revenge,maybe people would class me no better than the killer himself,BUT people are not in my shoes...i have to apologise for my coment about James's mother being at fault,that was a wrong thing to say,those boys had planned to do what they did,but whilst i and maybe others dwell on the past,they have a life and future,undeserved ahead of them......but polish it over as much as one wants,they are and allways will be sick murdering b!�"�$ds...and although it would never happen,if it had been my child who had commited the crime then i am sorry but there is no forgiveness in my
heart and no second chance,(but that would never happen) and to finish,i have 3 sons aged 6,11 and 12 and my two older boys are old enough to know right from wrong and responsible for their actions at their age....i/we have a right to know

[tubeway]

How can you say that bringing up your sons is a lifetime job (which I agree with - I have 2 sons aged 21 and 19) and then say IF they did commit a serios crime that there would be no forgiveness in your heart,
It is because of people who can not forgive under any circumstances, even though the crime was committed by children (I dare say that you are a very different person and behave and see things differently from when you were a child of 11) that the identities and whereabouts should not be made general knowledge.

[stevie1time]

What i meant was that i would not find forgiveness in my heart for my child,if he or she had commited such a heinous crime,whilst i was 100% responsible for their actions,meaning that they are in the eyes of the law,a child,and living at home..We cannot keep any eye on our children allways,or be fully responsible for how,let me say how they turn out,we can only help and guide them into adulthood. To sum it up,think back to when your children were the ages of the murderers,if for one second in your mind you even contemplated that your son/child was thinking of abducting,abusing,beating a two year old child to death,would you think that was bring them up right???? Some people unfortunately for us a born Evil,thet knew what they was doing and they know now exactly what they did,personally i think they are laughing at their easy path in life,but THEY will do it again,if they havent allready...You may ask how can i be sure,or what gives me the right to judge,well what gives me the right to judge,is that i am a father who wants the best for my children,and i will go to any lenghts to secure that,i.e dont you think you should have the right to know what disgusting filth(convicted and proven)live amongst us,would you want Venebles or Thomson to be the parents of YOUR grandchildren???

[tubeway]

So you think that people are born evil. I think that it is a combination of various things combining to make people commit evil acts. Using your logic of people being born evil - one of your own children could be born evil and nothing you do - no matter how well you bring them up could stop them.
Now you must know that is rubbish - otherwise how could you be so sure that your children would not commit terrible crimes. In which case - it is upbringing and circumstances that turned these two young boys into monsters - and education and training that will show them the error of their ways, and turn them into people that can walk our streets.

[stevie1time]

Hitler,Stalin,Amin,Hussein,Ho Chi Min,Vlad,Ghenghis,Milosovic the list goes on and on completely different subjects but linked in one way ot another........Peter Suttcliffe killed 13 women,brutally raped and murdered them,yet at home he was the perfect husband,never lifted a finger against his wife,tended to her when she was ill,forgave her when she had an affair..also he was a perfect child at home,,hence forth,he was born evil,that evil was allways there,but appeared when he was an ADULT,a parent cant blame themselves for this,so in a way i am contradicting myself,but when they commit crimes at a young age,THEN there is no hope>>>>

[fayelc123]

I don't have children myself but i honestly believe that if i did & anything like that happened to my 2 year old i would definately want revenge! I would want to take their live like they took my childs. Why should they be allowed to carry on their lives when they took somone elses.
All this rubbish about they were kids & didn't know what they was doing! What b******s! What kind of 10 year old doesn't no that abusing, kicking , hitting with bricks & god knows what else they did to that poor little boy is wrong! My bf's 2 year old daughter would know that's wrong so why wouldn't 10 year old boys!!!!!? They abused, beat & tortured a baby to death!!!! What kind of person that does this deserves another chance at life themselves! I agree that the public have a right to know who & where they are, i certainly wouldn't let my kids around them if i knew who & where they were. Yes, certain people deserve second chances but not everybody, some things are unforgivable & in my mind torturing, abusing & murdering a baby is unforgivable. If my daughter came home with one of this evil sick boys i would certainly want to throw bricks at their face & that would be just for starters!

[stevie1time]

Thanks fayelc123,finally,i cant believe it has took so long for someone to turn around and be honest,instead of saying what people think they should say,that is the problem with this country,too many do gooders and enough do'ers. I think if we had the oppurtunity to ask someone who had suffered such a terrible thing and also been let down by our justice system,what they would want done to the sick,twisted person (child or adult)? i doubt very much so that it would be "put them in a hospital,give them all the comforts that many people in this country dont have,then give them new lives,jobs etc,whilst the rest of are left to pick up the pieces..

[tubeway]

HOW DARE YOU

I have meant every word that I say. I do not say what I think others want me to say - I say what I really feel. What you mean is that you have finally got somebody who agrees with you .

I actually do know somebody who had their son murdered (<I did put his name and adress here and when he was murdered - but I would rather he was left in peace> - who was tortured before he died - the crime was comitted by their next door neighbour who actually helped look for him when he was missing) Initially the family was very angry (of course) and wanted to kill the murderer. Later they began to realise that all this hate was breaking up the family and would never bring their lovely son back to life. They have since moved away from the area so I dont know what their reaction was to the killer being released

We live in a democracy with a right to free speech - which is why I have put up with the rubbish that you have been spouting and pointed out some of your inconsistencies - but dont you dare accuse me of saying that I am just going along with what is expected just because it does not agree with your hippocritical unforgiving smallminded views

Other than that have a nice day

[stevie1time]

I apologise tubeway,i did not set out to offend or criticise anybody,just to hear what people had to say or thought,it just amazes me that only one person has said what is truly on their mind,i believe if we was to do a National Poll regarding what we would really want our Government and justice system to do with people who have commited such despicable and heinous crimes,especially paeodophiles and child murders, i very much feel that your views and those of other citizens who actually believe these people can be,lets say cured,as in costing taxpayers millions in giving them a life at least,would be in a very small minority.
Me,personally,with modern day advances in DNA profiles,we can prove beyond any doubt the person responsible,so why not the death penalty.....Also i didnt really want to say this,but i personally lost a close member of family to such a crime,he/she was never caught,no doubt alive and well somewhere,then again if they had been caught,no doubt they'd be alive and well in a 'secure unit' somewhere,out doing odd jobs on day release in some quaint village after a few years,cured im sure,,,My family have never had the oportunity to confront or see the person responsible,i am sure every member of my family would like to see him/her at the end of a rope. The americans use that word 'closure' .Parents and famillies of victims dont get closure,but knowing that the person who commited the crime is dead,is at least something...I do apologise once again if i have offended anyone with mine and the majority of people in this countries views,thankyou..

[starry eyes]

Stevie1time i completely agree with you. Y should these monsters have their life back and be protected. Jamie lost his life cos of them and they end up getting a better life than il ever have, being constantly protected by the law. it's insane. They should be tortured, the way they tortured that poor boy. I can forgive yeah, but these 2 DO NOT DESERVE forgivness. EVER.

[stevie1time]

Gracias Starry Eyes,its a debate that can go for ever,and we can talk till we turn blue,the hardest thing to accept is that we cant change the law..The politicians are too wrapped up in being politically correct,and keeping the do gooders happy. I am glad that i put the question up,it is the first time that i had been on the site,its good to know that other folks feel the same way,or are willing to debate..I have just put a question on about religion.looking forward to any,(if any)replies..Thanks to all,,especially to fayelc and starry eyes..;-)

[angeldraws]

Personally, i think it is more to do with the media - the TV that those young kids watched are as much to blame as the stupidity of the parents who feel they can 'safely' leave a 2 yr old child outside a shop for a few minutes. There was a time that that was the case, but not nowadays.
If MY child had ever murdered another child i would surely take SOME responsibility for the 'lack' of information, knowledge, and sense drummed into her/him.... Years ago, and not that many - there were reports of youngsters wrestling with younger relatives/friends and injuring them due to what they had seen and were imitating on TV. They didn't understand. As a parent, it is your duty to ensure your child understands. AS a parent, it is your duty NOT to leave a child outside a shop, even for a few minutes! What more can be said?

[stevie1time]

I agree angeldraws,I travel throughout the country due to my work,and often have to stay over in large cities or small community villages..I have to say ive seen children as young as 3years old out playing probably far from home,and late at night..Not to knock any towns or places,i myself are from Dudley,in the midlands and its not some middle class town,but i have seen very young children out in Manchester,Glasgow,Cardiff to name a few, the run down council estates in moss side,parkhead etc,,,and when something horrible does happen,the media put the parents on the T.V as though they are some doting parents who just cant understand how it happened?? I mean for intstance The recent case of the young 2year old girl,murdered and RAPED(it makes me phsically sick to think it)by her uncle,i mean what sort of a F$@ked up family could that child be in there,3 or 4 men leaving the house,drugs etc...I think though some blame must lie with our government,for allowing such areas to build up..I personally,although some may not believe,do not let my children go anywhere without me knowing where they are going and who with and what times,nor do they go alone anywhere,i think 15/16 is about the age when i might loosen up..Am i overprotective??? or just plain sensible???