GBH - Additional compensation

[worriedfather]

Hi,
If anyone has followed my other threads (GBH Section 20), I still need more advice.

Just to recap, my son was chrged with GBH for which he was innocent but the presecution eveidence out weighed the defence and therefore we were advised by the Barrister to plead Guilty.

The case concluded today and my son was given 250 hours Community Order, and fined £1000 compensation plus £680 court fees, which at the end of the day is better than a 2 year prision sentence but we are still seething that he had to plead guilty.

Anyway, the Judge also seemed to advise the Prosecution to pursue further compensation through the Civil Courts. If we had any inclination of this, we would have stuck to the Not Guilty plea.

My question, is this correct? Surely the Crown Court compensation is final. Also, if my son has no money or assests, what can the Civil Courts do?

[buildersmate]

There's the rub - the Crown Court 'compensation' is not that - it is a fine that goes into court funds - not to the victim.
The Judge is merely suggesting to the victim that he may wish to take out a civil case against your son. Success at this court would award compensation to the victim.
Clearly the Judge doesn't seem to see the thing the way you do ('for which was innocent' - sic). Perhaps he has heard all the evidence whereas you have merely heard one side of the story?

If your son has no assets, there are plenty of ways and means that individual awarded compensation can pursue the claim - including an attachment to earnings order from an employer.

[worriedfather]

Thanks for the answer. I won't go into the background of the case as that is now done and dusted.
The £1000 compensation is not a court fine. This is to go directly to the other party.

This is the bit we don't understand. He has agreed to compensation which seems to have been accepted, and he has no job or any assets. What could a civil case achieve?

[bednobs]

well, i'm assuming you are not expecting him to be unemployed forever? In fact i thought that money could also be taken from benefits.
i would guess that if your son didn't do it, but someone has maliciously said he had then the point of going to a civil court to claim compensation would be to rub it in even more and see your son struggle? Someone who dosen't want to see the real culprit punished, but would rather blame someone innocent and let the person who fractured his skull walk round scot free has probably got a screw loose anyway

[worriedfather]

I must say we are not impressed at all by the British justice system. We know who caused the fracture to the other persons skull (the victim himself. He has a history of self harm and depression). However our Barrister's advise was that if my son continued with the Not Guilty plea, the entire medical background of the victim would have to be dragged through court and our Barrister's adivce was to do so at our own peril.
Basically, his advise was based upon who the jury would sympathise with the most (the victim) and then the Judge venting his anger upon my son for making the entire court case more painful for the victim.
Oh, and also you are not innocent until proven guilty, you are guilty from the point of being charged, and beleive me, it is not up to the prosecution to prove you commited the offence. They merely have to gain sympathy from the Jury.
Hence the reason why he took the easier option of pleading guilty and hence the reason why we are now fuming that this could continue through a Civil Court.
And the offer of the £1000 came from my son (not the court) on the misunderstanding that this would be final.

We certainly feel like the mugs here!

[bednobs]

well your son certainly sounds like a mug for pleading guilty to GBH that he didn't commit then offering to pay compensation. Your original post says that if he'd have known he had to pay more he would have pleaded not guilty. so really he pleaded guilty just so he wouldn't have to pay more?
it's hard to read you critcizing the justice system when he voluntarily pleaded guilty! I don't really see what else a judge could have done when someone is admitting their guilt

[worriedfather]

He pleaded guilty on the advise of the Barrister as he was given a 75% chance of going to prison for 2 years.

You should all try the justice system one day. What you see on TV with plea bargaining and the like actually happens.

It has nothing to do with Justice, but everything to do with point scoring.

[buildersmate]

Thanks for the info, Eddie.

[bednobs]

lol bm, one could even say "i don't know where people get these unhelpful and wrong answers from...." :) :)

[themas]

I have a lot of sympathy with you & your son.

In the civil Court the standard of proof is less stringent than that in the criminal Court. It is decided on the "balance of probabilities", instead of "beyond reasonable doubt". If your son had pleaded not guilty & had been found guilty then it would have been on the more stringent test so he would have found it extremely difficult - if not impossible - to get a civil Court to decide any connected matter differently.

However, he pleaded guilty for reasons you have explained so his guilt has not been tested in Court under the more stringent test. Therefore, if a civil claim is brought against him it might be open to him to defend it. His barrister or solicitor would have to explain to the judge exactly why he pleaded guilty & ask that no further punishment (by way of additional compensation) be imposed.

Please note I am saying this without detailed knowledge of the way these things work in practice - if a claim is brought you need to discuss all the possible courses of action with your solictor/barrister.

[buildersmate]

bednobs - at least I acknowledge on the odd occasion I make a mistake.

[worriedfather]

Thanks for all your answers.

Hopefully this doesn't go any further and we are being paranoid for no reason.

Just one further point. I thought legal aid was available for civil cases but was just more difficult to obtain?

[themas]

"I thought legal aid was available for civil cases"

It is for some types of case, but is means tested. I'm not sure whether this type of case would be eligible - your son would have to find out from a solicitor if a claim is made.

[worriedfather]

Just had confirmation today that legal aid will be more than likely to be granted based upon earnings.

[Nathy1]

Hi all, I agree with you 'worried father'. You are very right in my opinion with the state of the britsh justcice system and as you put it - I niether believe in innocence until proven guilty. I am facing a charge of section 20 gbh (which i have previously posted about on here).

I am innocent of my charge and any 'unlawful violence' yet from the time of arrest I have been treated as guilty and even in the magistrates court the judge said "I cant deal with this case here... I believe you deserve more than the 6months this court can offer"

I havent even had my FLAMMING say about the whole account at this point!!!

I am a 25yr old surveyor, midway through studying a bussiness degree, girlfriend, ambitious ect, no previous record ect, unlike the so called "victim" YET I feel as though a guilty plea may actually avoid me a prison sentence! The police were usless with their investigations, when I specifically told them my defence, but I found myself collecting my own evidence (photos ect) for later use.

I'll be on trial where I must "convince" a crown court that I am innocent at the end of this month.

Sorry about the rant guys, in the last 5months this has turned my life upside down!

[Nathy1]

and bednobs... you say his sons an idiot for pleading guilty?? Anyone that doesnt consider all of their options is an idiot!!

If you know anything about the law which I don't then u'll proberly agree that each case is different and can in most cases be extremely complex when it comes to other people, their thought patterns, sorroundings and many more!

Seeing as your so clued up about the law and the complexity of individual cases ect then I was thinking that maybe you could help me?.... If I havent offended you that is.

Kind Regards