HORT1 - some discrepancy!?

[templar018080]

Hi all,

I got pulled over yesterday because a check revealed I did not have insurance.

I was pretty sure I was under a multi-car policy which I explained to the policeman. He said he would give me 7 days to produce an insurance certificate and then he issued me with a HORT1.

Unfortunately the multi-car policy has expired.

I have read the HORT1 carefully and he has entered on it:

OFFENCE CODE OR DEFECT: HORT/1 INSURANCE

However on the "document to be produced" the police man has only circled that I need to produce a valid licence and counter part. (documents to be produced list item number 1.)

Surely now I am only obliged to provide this and not the insurance certificate?

Have I been lucky? or is this oversight by the policeman irrelevant?

If the policeman's memory comes back or if someone spots the discrepancy can they issue me with a new HORT1 (or similar paper work) asking for the insurance certificate?

Thanks everyone

[redcrx]

i think you are already being reported as having no insurance. they now what to see you licence.

you wont have got away with it

[templar018080]

he said to me verbally that I had 7 days to produce a valid insurance certificate, so clearly there is some confusion.

[redcrx]

well take in the documents asked for and wait to see what happens.

Its not as if you can produce a valid insurance certificate anyway.

[templar018080]

...and surely if I was being done, there and then, for not having insurance then they would have to have had my car towed? no?

[redcrx]

not sure it always works like that, that they tow it.

[R1Geezer]

Just take the docs they asked for and wait.

They tend to towe the car if it comes up as uninsured on MID but if you claim you are insured as you did and there is some doubt as to what mechanism, they have descretion to allow you to produce the docs. It does look as though an error has been made, are you sure that producer does not mention insurance certificate anywhere?

[templar018080]

Hi R1Geezer
The HORT1 (producer) has INSURANCE written under the OFFENCE CODE OR DEFECT section.
The section;
"
Please produce your ticket and the documents indicated below (see over for description)
Record / Check 1 2 3/3 4/4 5/5 6/6 7 8/8 9/9 10/10
"
Within this section ONLY number 1 has been circled, which state Driving Licence & Counterpart over leaf

There is no other information apart from my name, address, signature where it happened etc.

Thanks

[templar018080]

do you think:

if they realise there's been a cock-up OR someone takes the HORT1 at face value, they will just think 1) No insurance 2) He has produced a valid driving license - so now next step - straight into a Court Summons?

thanks

[R1Geezer]

Ok you may be lucky just produce what they've asked for and hope for the best.

[redcrx]

you have two options. keep schtum and wait 6 months to see what happens
or ask what they will do

[templar018080]

Many thanks Redcrx and R1Geezer

Ironically I do hold a Certificate of Insurance covering the incident date. My insurance was cancelled automatically as I had failed to make payments. They will not re-new even if I pay the balance.

I did think about submitting this certificate, although that would depend on weather they intended to 1. RECORD or 2. CHECK it.

Probably a bit risky, think I’ll just hand the license I, as requested and wait it out.

Cheers

[redcrx]

i wouldnt take the certificate you do hold in, they are likely to check if their records say you werent insured and you could be a lot of bother for trying to pass it off. By the time the police stopped you you would have been well aware that the policy was cancelled.

as an aside, when new company ask if youve had insurance cancelled in the past you will need to declare the cancellation for non-payment in future. It probably wont change premiums but you should always be honest to ensure that you are correctly covered.

[donna1901]

he's cicrled that he's checked your license.
you have to produce your insurance documents to them.

[donna1901]

if you were insure on the day take the cover note in. all they do is fill it in a book to say you've produced, my b/f's had loads of these and each time its the same process.

[factor-fiction]

I'm not sure they'd want to see your insurance certificate anyway as it doesn't prove you had insurance (as indeed you didn't). They can establish whether there is valid insurance in place through the insurance database.

[templar018080]

Hi Donna, it states clearly on the producer (HOLT/1) that I need to bring in my license and counterpart. They didn't ask for anything at the scene.

Hi Factor, the policeman checked the MID database at the scene but issued the HOLT/1 specifically saying he wanted me to produce a valid certificate of insurance within 7 days - what I am saying is – the HOLT/1 contradicts this.

thanks

[ABerrant]

Sections 164 & 165 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 make it an offence (maximum fine £1000) to not instantly produce driving licence, MOT and/or insurance certificate at the roadside if requested to do so by a constable. However, you cannot be convicted of the offence if you produce said documents at a police station within 7 days - the HORT/1 is the means by which you can nullify the charge of "failing to produce..."

This is separate to a charge of "using with no insurance" (maximum fine £5000, 6-8 points or disqualification). The HORT/1 also allows you the opportunity to supply documents to defend against this charge and failure to do this (whether or not it is marked on the HORT/1) does not stop the original constable from commencing a prosecution when he receives the HORT/2 from your nominated police station, assuming they do not spot the obvious discrepency.