No insurance

[Marie]

a friend of mine was stopped at 8.20am for no insurance. He was driving a company vehicle and thought he was insured. He spoke to his boss and by 8.25 the vehicle was insured. He was still given points on his licence and fined. When he read the police report recently, the police said they stopped him at 8.30am. Can he get his points removed and fight this one out? Most iinterested to hear your comments. Thank

[ChuckFickens]

No.

[Davethedog]

No - He was stopped at 8:20 but he when was he charged.

[grasscarp]

The police knew that he was driving with no insurance which was why they stopped him. Your friend and his boss know that he was driving a vehicle without insurance. Whether your friend knew before he was stopped, and whether the police report had the wrong time on it does not change the facts.

[jackthehat]

If this had happened to me, I may well be asking my company to make up the difference (in monetary terms) that this offence has/will cause me....

[Marie]

@grasscarp. Yes, realise all what you said is very true but in this world of lunacy, thought it may be worth giving it a go! Thanks anyways

[Marie]

@ Jackthehat. The boss did pay the fine!!

[ChuckFickens]

I agree with JTH...

Although he has not got a chance of getting off with it (they *were* driving with no insurance) I'd be livid with my company and would be insisting they paid any extra cost incurred due to this.

Although, it's worth remembering, it's the drivers responsibility to ensure the vehicle and documents are in order before driving.

[flip_flop]

If your friend did not know or had no reason to believe the company vehicle he was driving was not insured, he has a valid defence to driving unisured under Section 143 of the Road Traffic Act which states;

"A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this section [this section being the requirement to have insurance] shall not be convicted if he proves...(b) that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and (c) that he neither know not had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance...."

You friend has a defence enshrined in law.

[flip_flop]

"..that he neither knew nor had reason..."

Fingers typing quicker than brain can work!

[grasscarp]

flip flop seems to be on to something Marie. My comment was based on your original question as to whether the time written down by the police would be able to be the basis of getting off.

[joko]

how can you be stopped, spoken to, make a phone call to your boss and explain, then they phone the insurance co and process the details, organise insurance and pay all within 5 minutes....?

[joko]

sorry got cut off... or do you mean it was pending and just so happened to come into affect 5 mins later than when he was stopped?

if its the latter, were they late in commencing the policy?

[New Judge]

The issue here is not whether or when insurance was arranged by the employer. It is whether Marie’s friend neither “knew nor had reason to believe” that the vehicle was not insured for him to drive.

Flip-flop is quite right in that there is a valid defence in the case where a driver driving a company vehicle believes it was insured for him to drive. The burden of proof shifts from the prosecution to the defendant and he must show that he had no reason to believe that he was not insured. The burden is lower (on the “balance of probabilities” rather than “beyond reasonable doubt”) and the way forward now is to register an intention to appeal to the Crown Court. This must be done within 21 days of conviction.

[Skyline D]

joko, if the employer in question has a motor fleet policy and the reason it wasn't insured is that the particular vehicle had somehow been missed from their register of insured vehicles then it's something the employer can update online simply by adding the registration number and it would have taken little more than a few seconds for someone who knows what they are doing and without any need to talk to the insurance company at all (though the addition of the vehicle may generate an automatic amended insurnace bill later).