is a agreement signed by both parties and not dated either when signed or next to signature valid?

[kingibo]

is a agreement signed by both parties and not dated either when signed or next to signature valid?

[jackthehat]

It is not necessarily invalid...........it would depend upon what sort of agreement.

[kingibo]

it is an agreement from a venue Club, i hired to have a concert so its been signed by me and the club but no date has been added to signature or to the agreement

[jackthehat]

So which one of you wants to wriggle out of the deal......?

[kingibo]

it is an agreement from a venue Club, i hired to have a concert so its been signed by me and the club but no date has been added to signature or to the agreement

[DTCwordfan]

If the intent can be proven, the date is irrelevant.

[kingibo]

i had this concert at venue club I previously worked at as General Manager of this club and 1 week before this concert the Marketing Manager emailed me the agreement between me and the club then I went same day to the club and signed this agreement, I asked the Marketing Manager if this agreement is the same as the one he emailed me and his answer was yes so I signed it didnt read it all as I trusted him. last night this concert was over I paid 1k deposit, all door charge was taken from me as i didnt meet the bar spend required as our agreement he emailed me should of been, but today I received several emails from this club them asking me to pay also the shortfall of the minimum bar spend which I never agreed to this but this marketing Manager has added to our agreement without letting me know hes done so even that I asked him if he changed anything to the agreement before i signed it. They are now threating me to sue if I dont pay them this money even that I made no money + I lost the 1k deposit i paid them and all the money I made at the door they kept it and I was not aware of this changes the marketing manager has done when I signed this agreement! should i be worried? should I seek advice? can they take me to court for this?

[jackthehat]

Could you cut and paste your last post adding the relevant proper punctuation ?

It's difficult to establish exactly who said/did what to whom in its present form.

[DTCwordfan]

Not checking a contract for editions is your own fault - its not ethical, true, but it happens so often. The trick many lawyers do is just to compare where the punctuation occurs on the page at the end of each paragraph as it is just about impossible to change things and maintain the punctuation position.

And then if you signed it....well. Unless you have clear documentation like e-mails as to your intent or mark-ups of the contract that you have made and sent over. You need to take advice as, prima facie, you are exposed.

[kingibo]

i had this concert at venue club I previously worked at as General Manager of this club and 1 week before this concert the Marketing Manager of this club emailed me the agreement between me and the club that needed to be signed, then I went same day to the club and signed this agreement, I asked the Marketing Manager of this club if this agreement is the same as the one he emailed me and his answer was yes so I signed it didnt read it all as I trusted him. last night i had this concert at this club and it was not busy so. the deposit of 1k that I paid to the club and all the money I made from club door charge was taken from me as i didnt meet the bar spend required of 6k as our agreement he emailed me should of have been and I thought I signed, so today I received several emails from this club owners them asking me to pay the shortfall of the minimum bar spend of 6k that was not meet saying this is in the agreement signed by me which I never agreed to this but this marketing Manager of the club has changed few things to our agreement without letting me know hes done so even that I asked him if he changed anything to the agreement before i signed it his answer was no its the same as the one he emailed me so I just trusted him and signed it. They are now threating me to sue if I dont pay them this shortfall of minimum bar spend of 6k even that I made no money on this concert + I lost the 1k deposit i paid them and all the money I made at the door they kept it and I was not aware of this changes the marketing manager of this club has has done to our agreement when I signed this agreement! If I knew I was responsible for the minimum bar spend and that I had to pay from my pocket if its not meet i would not have this concert there! now they are telling me that I should of read this agreement before signing it. should i be worried? should I seek advice? can they take me to court for this?

[jackthehat]

Unfortunately, you should have thoroughly read and checked the contract before you signed it.

Your conduct in sticking substantially to what you 'thought' had been agreed will mean that, in the eyes of the law, you have agreed to be bound by the terms of the contract 'as it is' and that if you couldn't be bothered to check that the contract was 'fair' the law will be unable to help you.

A contact doesn't have to be 'fair', it simply has to be 'legal'.

[DTCwordfan]

The hard lesson of life - bet you don't do that again........

Apart from documentation, you would need a credible witness to what the Manager said to you about "no changes" for any attempt but personally I suspect that "you are pizzing in the wind on this one."

Sorry to be harsh on this and JTH is saying the same......don't check on a revision and you take a hell of a risk......even lawyers between themselves have been known to play this one....despite all the editing software for tracking changes in a contract.

[kingibo]

I know I read this contract at home that this guy emailed me all of it and it was perfect, but by the time I went to the Club to sign it he added a column saying; the club organiser is responsible for the minimum bar spend to be meet, if not then liable to pay! I have been tricked by this guy as he used to work for me and I was previously a manager of this same club I trusted him and the club as on the first agreement he emailed me this requirement was not there, but he added it and when I asked him if the agreement is the same his answer was yes I didnt change nothing! I have emails of him saying that this was all so quickly and by the time I amended it you were already here bro... as i asked him why he didnt tell me he added this to our agreement without letting me know. please advise

[Maydup]

Unfortunately you signed something but didn't read it, which makes you liable.

Sorry to hear you lost money, but so have the club. Even by claiming the minimum spend from you they will be down on thier profits as they could have had a full night with good takings at the bar if they hadn't hired to you.

Its a tough business filling a venue and not to be taken lighting. Pay up but learn from this event to make the next one a huge success and hopefuilly you'll recoup your costs.

[kingibo]

I have a witness which was with me there as he is my partner whom we have organised this concert........ can he be counted as a witness? he heard this manager saying he has not changed nothing to our agreement etc....

[kingibo]

no this club is usually closed on thursdays and they have made no loss at all actually they have made profit as they kept my 1k deposit, took the door money I charged guests + they sold around 1k at the bar. I managed this same club as General manager for over 1 year so I know when they make loss or profit I was doing their GP for over 1 year.

[jackthehat]

1. You were lied to.
2. You had opportunity to find this out for yourself when you read through the contract before you signed it.
3. You didn't read it but signed it, anyway.............
4. You've been stitched up, my old son,......but it sounds like you'll have a hell of a job trying to wriggle out of it and it would probably cost you more to fight it than it will to pay up.
5. Tell them that you can't possibly afford it even *if* they take you to court; and find out if you can reach agreement about a lower figure they would be prepared to accept.

[Maydup]

I doubt they'll actually take you to court so you could try walking away - depends how you feel about that and whether you think they'll pursue you in other ways.

[kingibo]

they asking me for £3.873 and at present im unemployed so i cannot afford to pay them anything.... it wont cost me as im entitle to free solicitors claiming JSA at present, it will cost them hell alot as well to take this matter to court right? I know I have been stitched up but will the court consider this as stitch up? I have so many emails I can prove few things to them!!! how can people be so cruel I dont understand. should I wait for their solicitor to send me court letter then hire a solicitor or do this now?

[jackthehat]

They were relying on you not scrutinising the contract..........and they were right.
Legally, they can probably enforce the contract and will do so by taking you to court. If you are entitled to free legal assistance, then go and see someone now........it'll help you to have things explained in a calm manner. Make sure that you take ALL copies of correspondence with you.
Sometimes a well-written solicitors letter can concentrate the mind fully, and the club may be content to make do with what they have already received.

[bednobs]

how will you get free solicitors for small claims court?