shared driveway

[Lala]

I live in a listed building with 6 flats and a shared driveway. We have parking permission for 6 cars . The spaces are in a straight line down one side of the drive. They are not marked out but we all stick to the same space.

The person with the first space which is nearest to the house insists on parking 10 feet away from the building as she says fire regulations insist on this. This means that the other 5 cars are squashed up together with very little room. Does anyone know if these rules she is takiing about actually exist?
Your comments would be appreciated

[woofgang]

Ask her to show you written proof of this......simples!

[sherrardk]

Can't one of the other people swap places with her?

[brenda]

Break the mould get there soon and park in her space. end of

[joko]

just park in that 10ft...if there are not set rules, it doesnt matter...if she is worried about being nearest the building then she will be glad...

or get some paint and mark out bays yourself...check out the general standard width an stick with that...she will still end up a good few feet away from the buidling

unless her car would be blocking exits then theres no fire regs.

[Lala]

Thanks Joko. Actually she wants to be nearest the building, that is part of the problem, she is also a bully and likes to rule the roost. I would nip into the space but there is then a shouting match which I don t like. It is a good idea to mark out the spaces though. Do you know if there is a set size for each space? I think I will go to the council and see if they know anything about these so called fire laws though.

[sherrardk]

Why don't you ring the fire brigade in your area, cut out the middle man?

[Buenchico]

Let me start with an analogy relating to food hygiene:
If you try to find SPECIFIC legislation which states that people involved in food preparation must wash their hands after visiting the toilet, you won't do so. All that the law (as laid down by Parliament) does is to lay down GENERAL principles, requiring those involved in the preparation of food (and those supervising them) to maintain certain general standards. It's up to restaurant bosses to lay down specific rules, and to ensure that they're observed. Local public health officials can also make it clear as to which rules they expect catering establishments to adhere to.

Similarly, there's very little written into statute law as to SPECIFIC requirements in relation to fire safety. It's up to the landlords (or freeholders) of properties like yours to ensure that the GENERAL principles of fire safety are adhered to. They can therefore make their OWN rules, which tenants (or leaseholders) are expected to observe, in order to comply with their legal obligation. Also, where a property requires a fire certificate issued by the local fire service, the Chief Fire Officer can insist upon certain rules being put into place before a certificate is granted.

All of which (regrettably) means that we're not really in a position to advise you. There is no GENERAL rule relating to the proximity of parked vehicles to multi-occupancy properties, but your landlord (or freeholder) might have imposed such a rule as a condition of tenancy (possibly at the insistence of the Chief Fire Officer for your area) in relation to the particular building which you live in.

You should ask the person who insists upon parking 10 feet away from the building whether they're doing so because they believe that it's a statutory requirement or whether it's because it's in their tenancy agreement (or lease, as appropriate). If it's the former, you can tell them that they're wrong. If it's the latter, they may well be correct.

Chris

[Lala]

Thank you for such a comprehensive answer Chris.

As leasholders of the flats, we also own the freehold and there is nothing in the lease that says anything about this. This woman just says that it is the law and goes on about fire regulations. As we have permission for 6 cars then I would also think that there must be a required size of space, which must have been taken into account when the permission was granted.

[woofgang]

On from Chris's comprehensive response, can I again suggest that you ask to see WRITTEN proof of her assertion? Even if you mark spaces out she doesn't have to comply and my experience of bullies is that they will continue to bully until stopped. Are you supported by the four other residents? If you are then all you have to do is approach her jointly (maybe by letter) making your requirements and suggestions clear and don't be bullied.

[IggyB]

Is she keeping a fire exit clear by any chance?

I would suggest you call a freeholder meeting to discuss the situation, allow her to make her point / bring proof to support her parking practices. At the end of it take a vote to rearrange your parking provision and mark out the bays correctly (main for from your maintenance account) - seeing as everyone is inconvenienced apart from this difficult women I would imagine you would win. Get the results of the vote written up and provide copies to everyone.

[Tim123]

If we are talking about an exit route from the building, a good general rule is to make sure that there is enough space for a wheelchair to get through. Four feet would be ample for that. If it's not on an exit route, you can park as close to the building as you want to.

[joko]

i am not sure of the measurement, but i did see it online once so you should be able to find an generally accepted measurement...and just start as far back as possible, so she will still get her few extra feet.

i would claim the building inspector or someone did it, not you, or he may ignore it

[Barquentine]

IggyB is right. There should be a property management company. Your share of the freehold is evidenced by your holding one share in that company. Call a shareholders' (ie the freeholders) meeting. Make sure everyone has at least 14 days' notice (check if this is the minimum no. of days notice needed). Make sure everyone gets an agenda. Ask her to bring evidence - look in your freehold (and leasehold) title deeds as well (print them off the Land Reg site for £2 if you don't have a copy). Check the Property (A) and Charges (C) registers and examine the Title Plan. Check your lease again though - there ought to something covering parking in there - or the lease plan at the very least. Also - who is in charge of the property management company? Someone must be co-ordinating proposals for repairs/maintenance? Maybe they have the fire cert or other documents. It's probably Miss Bossy Boots herself!
On the principle that 'he (or she) who asserts must prove' you can all require her to prove her assertions - and then vote to amend them! Good luck.

[jackthehat]

Parking spaces are generally 2.4m wide x 4.8m long.

[themas]

Is there a fire certificate for the building? If so, look at it & see what it says. If not, there probably ought to be one. Either way, contact the fire authority for advice. They will probably want to send someone round to inspect.

Whoever is reponsible for your management company ought to be dealing with this. If you haven't got a management company you should get one set up pronto!

[bushbaby_de]

The planning permission for the flat conversion will have to have shown the parking so the spaces will be marked on those plans even if not marked on the ground.

[Lala]

Thanks for your help everyone. I obtained the plan on the conversion with the parking plan and took it to the council who put me in touch with the fire dept and also roads and parking and there are no such rules. When confronted the person in question just backed down, and we have now marked out the 6 spaces equally.!