What are our rights? Repairing damage to car

[Nosha123]

Hi All
My husband is a builder. and one of the recent jobs he was working on - had a delivery of materials to the site. The chaps that work for him needed to move a vehicle that was in the way to allow the delivery of the materials from a crane onto the plot.
They picked up a car and moved it out of the way (using their muscle!)
The car is a small peugeot and old.. probably only worth about £500-£1000.
Anyhow - someone somehow made a small dent in the rear wing with their hand as the car was being moved.
We have no issue with blame - and are happy to repair it. But the owner is being a bit difficult (as she is obviously peed off!).
She wants ONLY peugeot to repair it and wants the whole rear wing and bumper replaced. Now I know a really good 'chips away' spray paint man who does all our fleet cars (BMWs and Audis etc) and he will do it for a lot less than a garage will.
Does she have the right to demand WHO repairs it - or can we get it done by anyone as long as they are good quality? A freelance individual is obviously gonna be cheaper than a garage - he has already seen the damage and agreed its a really small amount of work required...
We accept the blame - but dont want to then be ripped off trying to put it right!
THANKS

[Skyline D]

Have to say that whilst I appreciate Nosha is trying to do right by the woman involved here, there does seem to be a fundamental ignoring of the issue at hand. It doesn't matter who delivered what. It doesn't matter what the car looks like or how much it is worth. Your employees completely illegally took it upon themselves to physically lift a car out of the way which they had absolutely no right to do and damaged it in the process. This isn't an accidental action like scraping past it. It's a conscious action with foreseeable consequences. If I was the woman in question I'd be absolutely livid and I damn well would be insisting on a Peugeot garage or a Peugeot approved bodyshop dealing with the problem at the very least and good as your guy may be, I very much doubt I'd happily accept the offer to put it right with a guy the other party wants to use, certainly not without properly checking his credentials. I'd probably also be looking for some degree of compensation.

[THECORBYLOON]

I'm not sure if the car could have been moved wi due care if it had been left dented. I can't see why yous don't bite the bullet and leave it to the insurers. If the woman won't accept the other guy fixing it or the £150, she'll be contacting the insurers anyway so they'll get to know about it at some point.

[Andyvon]

Nosha -

I was just making points based on how your thread reads. I think you're just looking for someone here to agree with you.

Surely your company can afford to pay whatever it costs to repair the woman's car? What about suggesting she obtain three separate quotes and you agree pay the middle one? If she goes to Peugeot then that will be the highest quote.

I know if any of my chauffeurs or other staff had caused any damage I would have just paid up and thought "What the Hell. I can afford it" I'm sure your firm can afford to swallow any difference between the woman's quotes and those of your own repairer. If you don't want to affect your insurance then just pay out your own pocket. I did that with three accidents to my chauffeur cars over the years so that my fleet policy wasn't affected. This Peugeot won't cost you much to put right for the woman. You can afford to repair it much more than she can and you do recognise your employees were in the wrong.

I hope you get it all sorted out.

[bednobs]

how do you know that andy?

[Nosha123]

To Andyvon
"I think you're just looking for someone here to agree with you"
No I am not.. I came on here asking what are our rights...
In other words MUST we accept her repair bill costs from a Peugeot dealership - or can we offer an equal solution to the problem.
At no time have we disputed the cause or the blame and we are trying to put it right for her. Yes I think she is being a bit difficult because she is peeved.. thats natural...
Can we afford to pay any cost to put it right? In your mind apparently yes we can.... I must be loaded and have thousands of pounds stashed away eh!
I came to LEGAL to look for legal advice.. and I marked Barmaid as best answer because her answer was based on fact.. not emotion.. or how the woman must be feeling... but fact. What legally MUST we do to put this right and what do we not have to do... That is why I marked her answer as best.
To state "surely your company can afford to pay whatever it costs" is quite a statement considering you know nothing about me.. the size of the company... or our financial status.
I'd be shopping in M&S and Waitrose if I had money to splash about and wouldnt wear clothes from Primark... but hey....
She hasnt sent me the peugoet quote through - as I requested to see it. She hasnt sent me photos - as I requested. She has agreed to consider getting another quote from somewhere else.. but lets wait and see.
The chap we proposed to repair the job is a professional with his own business and cant afford to be seen as a shoddy repairer (no one who is self employed can afford a poor reputation...). I will have to see how he responds to her list of questions and whether that satisfies her.
I doubt it though.

[Andyvon]

But the woman isn't comfortable with that is she Nosha? She should get three quotes I think then have a chat with you about it. If she's not happy with your choice then you should go along with her choice. You do accept your workmen were in the wrong.

I don't know your company finances but you did mention "all your fleet of BMWs and Audis" in your thread. You aren't struggling are you Nosha! When you mention about paying any repair cost you are not talking about a Bentley or Jaguar, you desribe the car as an old Peugeot only worth about £500-£1000. It won't cost that much to put right for her. You must know that your accountant will write most of the costs off against tax anyway so it won't cost you much, if anything. Are you zero-rated? I can't remember the details but I know my accountant did that when I paid for my cars to be repaired. Otherwise, why are you paying an accountant (I'm presuming you have one) if they can't do that for you?

I'm just surprised that you are letting this roll on with what your rights are. I don't think you or your company are too pushed for money if you have fleets of luxury cars (for a building firm?) and a decent accountant. Repairing an older Peugeot shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[tenrec]

What about the good will of your company Nosha? Surely she will tell all her friends how wonderful you were if you go along with her. Good advertising. If you don't, bad advertising may result.

[Barmaid]

I have some sympathy with both sides. I would equally argue both sides in Court.
Ponder on these examples:-

A's car is damaged by B who admits full liability. A's car is worth £700. The insurance company declares the car a "write off" - although it is repairable. A gets a quote for the repair of the vehicle in the sum of £900. Rather than having his beloved 20 year old Alfa scrapped he decides to have it repaired. What should b pay?

Different situation. A's car is damaged by B. It needs to be in the workshop for 3 weeks from 1/9 to 21/9. A has a foreign holiday booked from 7/9 to 22/9 and he is flying from Heathrow. B's insurers offer A a "courtesy car" whilst his is off the road. However, A isn't happy with the courtesy car offered (A has a 10 year old 7 series BMW and the insurers have offered a 1 year old BMW 5 series as a replacement). A wants a comparable car, so hires a brand new 7 series BMW from 31/8 to 30/9. What should B pay for?

I am not being awkard, I am using examples of real cases to provoke discussion. What do YOU think?

[Skyline D]

Regardless of the legals there's a moral issue here certainly and whilst you acknowledge that your guys made the dent and don't have a problem paying to fix it (and I'm sure your dent guy is superbly qualified to do it - that's not the point) it doesn't seem to me you've actually acknowledged at all that they were absolutely in the wrong to do what they did. You've talked about them "having no choice" but to move it. Well, no they didn't. You not having the capability to get your materials on site is not an emergency. If a fire engine or ambulance can't get to an emergency you "have" to move a car. Some building materials not getting delivered isn't. You need to arrange for delivery on a vehicle that can get to the site or arrange with the Council to cone the road for a period for delivery.

The car was legally parked (presumably? you've not suggested it wasn't) and you had no right to touch it never mind move it. What we have here seems to me (and I'm not a lawyer so I'm not professing expertise at all) to be criminal damage, not accidental damage. I'm not disputing they didn't mean to damage the car but they also didn't need to touch it. If she's not entitled to additional compensation under the law then she damn well should be.

[Andyvon]

Your example A illustrates the point I'm trying to make very well Barmaid. The value of the car doesn't matter. If it were a shed or a wall or a TV then the value of the damaged property is academic. What matters is that the injured party has her property either repaired or replaced. I've had my car for 24 years and I want to keep it for another 24 - the value is irrelevant. Perhaps that's the case with this lady. The car might have been her mother's (as mine originally was) and she's very attached to it. In that case the building firm should just cough up and repair it. Having been in business myself I know I would just pay for the repair and not mess the woman about. I would then make my employees very aware of what I had had to do.

Two years ago my wife and I went away for two weeks while our house was rewired and all new plumbing fitted. The workmen switched off the electricity and ruined two freezers of food - despite them assuring us they wouldn't do just that. The company owner instantly went to the bank and paid us £250 cash for the value of the food out of his own pocket. He said he would sort it out with his insurance later. I was so pleased I recommended them to other people.

I don't see why Nosha doesn't do the same as the woman would be impressed and very happy if she did. Instead, the firm are damaging their own reputation by quibbling about a small vehicle repair. Not only will the company accountant write the cost off to tax but they must be able to afford it if they have a fleet of luxury cars! Am I wrong?

[ladyalex]

Barmaid...in your first scenario, whose Insurance Company are you talking about ? The car owner's or the car damager's ? And who would declare the car a 'write off' ?
Actually, what is the position in Nosha's case as regards the car insurance ? Presumably the car owner should report the incident to her insurers ?....would they require a police report ? would the police pursue this as criminal damage, or whatever ?
Common sense seems to indicate that the lady whose car was damaged was an entirely innocent party in a completely avoidable incident...not an accident...and should not have to bear any cost resulting from this.

[boxtops]

I truly do not understand why this isn't being handled NOW by nosha's public liability insurance company - there isn't an excess on a PL policy, we're not talking car insurance here. If the woman decides to take it further because she can't get agreement from your husband's company, then you're going to get legal costs on top of this. This is exactly what your PL insurance is FOR - if you give her a copy of the certificate, as you must, it's pretty obvious that she's going to report it to them and make a claim. It'll be better for your company if you get there first and report the incident before she does, otherwise they will have to come to you anyway a) for corroboration and b) ask why they've not been notified - you have a duty under the policy to report to them if you think that a claim will arise.

[AlBags]

This is the problem with interfering or damaging someone elses property in a public place or car park.
You will have to grit your teeth (him rather) and pay it.
Really, you relinquish your right to be choosy and picky once it had been decided to move this car manually.
Put it down to experience .. or next time use a trolley jack!!

[Andyvon]

...and company reputation? Word of mouth is the best form of advertising and the woman would only praise the company for speedily sorting out their mistake. Instead, they seem happy to damage their own reputation over something quite trivial.

[Nosha123]

Andyvon.. Tell me exactly where I have stated that we own.."a fleet of luxury cars"
You are not reading the threads properly and you are jumping to wrong conclusions because you are are not reading it properly!

[Nosha123]

I stated that the repair man " he repairs all the fleet cars where i work and his service is excellent"

Not my husbands vehicles.. but the vehicles where I am employed! My husband is a builder and doesnt have a fleet of BMW and Audis... In fact I dont know nay builders who would... They tend to drive VANS... as the tools would make the inside of a Z4 a tad messy dont you think?

[Nosha123]

To Boxtops.. I hadnt realised PL insurance has no excess payable.. I need to read the small print.
I'll be diggin out the certificate this weekend to scan and email her a copy and the repair man is currently answering all her questions.
This would have been sorted out a long time ago - we had an appointment for the repair guy to go round and fix it but she was on holiday and so he couldnt get access to the inside of the car... (where the paint code is printed)

[cathfromsaron]

the cost of repairing that dent should be a specific amount! she can then take this cash anywhere she likes! but i can't see how the move caused the damage! i bet she's trying it on! x

[ChuckFickens]

"but i can't see how the move caused the damage!"

Really?.... you've obviously never picked a car up then.

[yogi-bear]

Told you you'd get some feedback from the good folk here, Nosha :0)

That was my initial thought, Chuckers.....had the car not been touched, the damage would'nt have occured in the first place.