how long does a secondment have to last before you can claim the job as perminent

[billinge]

I have been with my current employer for 13 years and i am currently on a secondment to a management position, this secondment was origionally for 3 months but has been extended for an undetermined time, recently my employer has restructured the management role and as part of the restructuring, anyone in a perminent position or on paid secondment for 4 years or more have been guaranteed a position, everyone else has to apply for a position, the interviews for this position are due to take place over the next month with the hope of filling the positions in about 8 weeks.
I have been on a paid secondment for 3 years and 49 weeks, hence at this time i am 3 weeks short of having 4 years in, my 4 years will be up whilst the interviews are taking place and certainly before the positions are filled.
Where do i stand from a custom and practice point of view, and do i have a legal right to the full time position?

[rowanwitch]

Every organisation is different in some it is as little as 6 months in others you never get an automatic right to the post...however doing the job gives you an advantage if you have to apply for it.

[woofgang]

Have you discussed this with your employer? Not sure what the legal aspect is and it would depend on what you have written down, you might look at the ACAS site for general advice. Custom and practice, in general, isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on unless there is someone who has been acting up for the same amount of time as you, or less who has been guaranteed a position.

[boxtops]

I really can't say - in my experience, secondments can be extended but always have a finish date. However, IMO you should be thinking that without the secondment, you have still been in a paid position with the company for more than four years (and the whole point of secondment is that you go back to your original job once the secondment is over ) - so you should qualify, you still have a substantive job. Do you have an HR department that you can check this out with?

[buildersmate]

In the final line of your question you use the words "full time position". I assume this is a slip, and you meant 'permanent position'? - in the sense that your contracted hours are no different between the two jobs?
Custom and practice does have some standing but it is in terms of an implied term of your contract. By its nature, this means that it is not written down (it is 'implied' by action [or inaction] by the employer. You don't have an implied term if you have some documentation (letter) from the employer stating that 'you will be employed on secondment as an X for a period of at least 3 months and until advised otherwise' (or similar wording). It would be interesting to know what the relevant form of words used by your employer was.
To be honest, from the point of view of someone involved in HR over a period of time, it stinks that you can be left so long in limbo, but I think that it is just poor management practice rather than a legal inadequacy. If you've been doing the job at least satisfactorily for so long, it galls that you have to apply for the post against other newcomers. Secondments are supposed to be temporary or development opportunities - designed to demonstrate that the individual could grow into the job. But that is a 'good practice' comment rather than a legal one since your route to resolution would be through Employment Tribunal and it is hard to see how you could get to ET except following a process of being unsuccessful in the appointment, returning to your 'old' job, resigning then claiming constructive dismissal. Not a route one would recommend.

[factor-fiction]

I can't really add much to what buildersmate has said.

It might be worth asking your employer whether they can treat you as falling within the '4 years plus' category on the basis that you will have been there 4 years by the time the recruitment process is completed.

Yes it does seem unusual for a company to have employees who have been in a seconded role for more than 4 years, and from the way the rule has been announced I assume that there will be a quite a few employees in this category.

From what you say though, I'm assuming that under the restructuring there are more people than roles at this level (and the company may use pretty wide job roles so two managers in different departments could be considered a s doing the same role). So it has to decide on rules for who should be placed and who should have to apply.

You may find that if you have been in the role for so long you stand a good chance over people who have been seconded to roles for shorter periods of time