Crosswords1 min ago
Do I have a right to a reason why my employers have told me to leave.
I have worked for my employers for 35 years. About 12 months ago other employees were getting phone calls at all times of night.
For some reason unknown to me they thought I was making them.
Suddenly I started getting these weird phone calls and I got them traced to an employee much more senior than me and the police were involved.
This other employee was taken to court and left the company.
This has caused friction in the company and my retirement date is in May.
I have been paid my full salary up till May and have it in writing my pension will start then and been told never to come onto the company premises again.
I have been told by a manager 15 employees thought I was making these phone calls.
I am now wanting a written reason why these 15 employees thought it was me and I also want it in writing that the phone call incident will not be mentioned if I ever wanted a reference for a future job which is very unlikely. Do I have any right to this.
For some reason unknown to me they thought I was making them.
Suddenly I started getting these weird phone calls and I got them traced to an employee much more senior than me and the police were involved.
This other employee was taken to court and left the company.
This has caused friction in the company and my retirement date is in May.
I have been paid my full salary up till May and have it in writing my pension will start then and been told never to come onto the company premises again.
I have been told by a manager 15 employees thought I was making these phone calls.
I am now wanting a written reason why these 15 employees thought it was me and I also want it in writing that the phone call incident will not be mentioned if I ever wanted a reference for a future job which is very unlikely. Do I have any right to this.
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Hi Howard
I have not been advised if I have been dismissed. I was just advised verbally that 15 people thought I was making the phone calls.
All that has happened is I have now received a pay slip detailing the amount of salary payable had I worked until my 60th birthday and the money has been paid into my bank account.
Tax has been deducted.
I also had a letter detailing the amount of pension which will be payable and it is being paid as if I worked until my 60th birthday.
Overall I have not lost out from a financial point of view. Probably I have gained as I will not have any more transport expenses.
At present all I want at present is the reason why all these people thought I was making these nuisance calls.
I have not been advised if I have been dismissed. I was just advised verbally that 15 people thought I was making the phone calls.
All that has happened is I have now received a pay slip detailing the amount of salary payable had I worked until my 60th birthday and the money has been paid into my bank account.
Tax has been deducted.
I also had a letter detailing the amount of pension which will be payable and it is being paid as if I worked until my 60th birthday.
Overall I have not lost out from a financial point of view. Probably I have gained as I will not have any more transport expenses.
At present all I want at present is the reason why all these people thought I was making these nuisance calls.
Morning,
Reading what you have written here, it appears you have not been dismissed at all but given the last few months of your employment off with full pay to retirement
If I were you, I'd just take it and sit back and relax.
15 people may think you made some calls you shouldn't have. Is it that big a deal? Do these 15 people really matter? Does it matter whether they or the important people i your life believe that?
You are unlikely to want a reference, you say that yourself so I agree with EDDIE
Move on, claim anything that you can and live the rest of your life to it's fullest
Reading what you have written here, it appears you have not been dismissed at all but given the last few months of your employment off with full pay to retirement
If I were you, I'd just take it and sit back and relax.
15 people may think you made some calls you shouldn't have. Is it that big a deal? Do these 15 people really matter? Does it matter whether they or the important people i your life believe that?
You are unlikely to want a reference, you say that yourself so I agree with EDDIE
Move on, claim anything that you can and live the rest of your life to it's fullest
Based on what you have said, it seems unlikely that an Employment Tribunal would conclude that you have been dismissed - you have been put on Gardening Leave until you reach 65 years of age. However an employer cannot now force an employee to leave at the normal retirement age - 65 in your case (so you indicated) - the law changed last year.
It seems unlikely that the employer intends to continue with the employment contract, so at some time in the near future (perhaps when you reach 65) they will dismiss you and at that point the evidence suggests that the dismissal will be unfair.
The way some employers deal with these situations is via a Compromise Agreement - basically an agreement to exchange cash for an acceptance that no claim for unfair dismissal or breach of contract will be pursuaded and the employee won't talk to anyone about what happened - this is what Twix was asking you.
Paying employees for Gardening Leave in advance sounds dodgy to me - I'd be interested in others views on this. For example, tax and NI will have been deducted at the date of payment. This may not have any net impact on you regarding tax (because you will be able to claim back the current overpayment in tax at the end of the current financial year, once you have 'earned' no more salary between now and April). But NI is a different issue - and they will have saved themselves employer's NI as well as saving you employee's NI if they have lumped all the salary into a single payment. If they have deducted the tax and NI as if they had been paid you normally (weekly / monthly) until May, they HAVE to have broken HMRC rules, not least because this period runs into the next FY.
I appreciate that none of this directly answers your question. Do I have a right to a written reason? - here we go full circle because most of us believe you haven't actually legally been dismissed.
If this is causing you stress, I'd be inclined to take others advice and just enjoy the early retirement. If it had been me, I'd want to get back at them, and a letter along the lines 'thank you for the payment dated x. Please advise if I have been dismissed and if so, the reason for my dismissal'. That should get them thinking.
I think you've been badly treated by an organisation that doesn't understand too much about employment law.
It seems unlikely that the employer intends to continue with the employment contract, so at some time in the near future (perhaps when you reach 65) they will dismiss you and at that point the evidence suggests that the dismissal will be unfair.
The way some employers deal with these situations is via a Compromise Agreement - basically an agreement to exchange cash for an acceptance that no claim for unfair dismissal or breach of contract will be pursuaded and the employee won't talk to anyone about what happened - this is what Twix was asking you.
Paying employees for Gardening Leave in advance sounds dodgy to me - I'd be interested in others views on this. For example, tax and NI will have been deducted at the date of payment. This may not have any net impact on you regarding tax (because you will be able to claim back the current overpayment in tax at the end of the current financial year, once you have 'earned' no more salary between now and April). But NI is a different issue - and they will have saved themselves employer's NI as well as saving you employee's NI if they have lumped all the salary into a single payment. If they have deducted the tax and NI as if they had been paid you normally (weekly / monthly) until May, they HAVE to have broken HMRC rules, not least because this period runs into the next FY.
I appreciate that none of this directly answers your question. Do I have a right to a written reason? - here we go full circle because most of us believe you haven't actually legally been dismissed.
If this is causing you stress, I'd be inclined to take others advice and just enjoy the early retirement. If it had been me, I'd want to get back at them, and a letter along the lines 'thank you for the payment dated x. Please advise if I have been dismissed and if so, the reason for my dismissal'. That should get them thinking.
I think you've been badly treated by an organisation that doesn't understand too much about employment law.
The trouble with following BM is that he gives such a comprehensive, correct and common sense reply that he leaves little opportunity for anything new to be said.So I will content myself with agreeing. I do not think you have been dismissed and from what you say you appear to be on gardening leave, as you have probably not been dismissed you cannot claim under the Employment rights act 1996 for written reason for dismissal. It is an unusual decision to pay you in advance and I see no advantage in doing so, be very cautious about doing any other paid work whilst you are being paid by your original employer.
You do not have the legal right to a reference unless it states in your Contract of employment that a reference will be given, usually upon request. It is very unusual for a company to refuse to give a reference but this is often a statement of when you joined when you left and your job title. Employers have a duty of care that any reference is true, accurate, fair and without malice, if it is not you could claim negligence or even liable, hence the short reference.
You do not have the legal right to a reference unless it states in your Contract of employment that a reference will be given, usually upon request. It is very unusual for a company to refuse to give a reference but this is often a statement of when you joined when you left and your job title. Employers have a duty of care that any reference is true, accurate, fair and without malice, if it is not you could claim negligence or even liable, hence the short reference.
Buildersmate is on the money here: you appear to have been given a generous settlement similar to a compromise agreement (good) but have not been involved in any negotiation about your position (bad). I'm assuming from your account that you've had no legal support, say from your union (I know Buildersmate has opinions re unions , but the small people need legal help and that's one good use for them).
The employer has moved with indecent haste, suggesting they have things to hide. You have not been made to sign anything saying you won't spill the beans. So you could spend time and money on asking them to explain why they are corrupt.
They won't do it. They will wriggle, squirm, lie and defame you.
They are already poisoning your relationship with your former colleagues: but if these people are so scared or easily swayed, they aren't proper friends.
The sensible thing to do is to enjoy your very relaxed financial position and take steps to purge the bad experience from your thoughts.
The employer has moved with indecent haste, suggesting they have things to hide. You have not been made to sign anything saying you won't spill the beans. So you could spend time and money on asking them to explain why they are corrupt.
They won't do it. They will wriggle, squirm, lie and defame you.
They are already poisoning your relationship with your former colleagues: but if these people are so scared or easily swayed, they aren't proper friends.
The sensible thing to do is to enjoy your very relaxed financial position and take steps to purge the bad experience from your thoughts.
Hi Selmecat
As you have said you have been paid to your retirement date I would not take any further action.
You could take your employers to court and I know they only have to show they had reasonable cause to suspect you at the time so you could pay out a lot of money to get nothing.
There is also the matter of proof. I think you will find it difficult to prove you had been accused of making these phone calls.
Employers can not now withold references without reasonable cause and they now know you did not make these calls even though they do not want to admit it to you.
I know somebody who was an employee of a major bank and a senior manager drove into the back of his car and was charged with careless driving by a police officer who saw the incident.
Other more senior managers wanted him to admit that he was at fault for the accident even though a police officer stated the manager was at fault.
As it happened the manager had 9 points on his licence and he was disqualified for 6 months.
Martin
As you have said you have been paid to your retirement date I would not take any further action.
You could take your employers to court and I know they only have to show they had reasonable cause to suspect you at the time so you could pay out a lot of money to get nothing.
There is also the matter of proof. I think you will find it difficult to prove you had been accused of making these phone calls.
Employers can not now withold references without reasonable cause and they now know you did not make these calls even though they do not want to admit it to you.
I know somebody who was an employee of a major bank and a senior manager drove into the back of his car and was charged with careless driving by a police officer who saw the incident.
Other more senior managers wanted him to admit that he was at fault for the accident even though a police officer stated the manager was at fault.
As it happened the manager had 9 points on his licence and he was disqualified for 6 months.
Martin
If you have signed a compromise agreement then that is probably the end of the matter.
However, if you have never been advised of a dismissal, one option could be to write to them saying "thankyou very much for letting me have the 5 months off as paid (paid in advance) leave, but please note it is my intention to return to work in June 2012, although I may of be prepared to negotiate severance terms of X months' pay or in accordance with the company's redundancy payments scheme"
However, if you have never been advised of a dismissal, one option could be to write to them saying "thankyou very much for letting me have the 5 months off as paid (paid in advance) leave, but please note it is my intention to return to work in June 2012, although I may of be prepared to negotiate severance terms of X months' pay or in accordance with the company's redundancy payments scheme"
Hi Buildersmate
The only thought I had was taking them to court for slander but I think that would be difficult to prove as it appears the only people to know about the alleged phone calls are people within the company and I Selmcat is just going to hit a wall of silence ie people in the company will not witness this.
Overall like other people if it was me I would take the money and run.
Another bit of advice to Selmecat is if it was me I would not make any arrangements to go on holiday until his retirement date as his employers may be within their rights to call him back but it is unlikely this would happen.
Martin
The only thought I had was taking them to court for slander but I think that would be difficult to prove as it appears the only people to know about the alleged phone calls are people within the company and I Selmcat is just going to hit a wall of silence ie people in the company will not witness this.
Overall like other people if it was me I would take the money and run.
Another bit of advice to Selmecat is if it was me I would not make any arrangements to go on holiday until his retirement date as his employers may be within their rights to call him back but it is unlikely this would happen.
Martin
As Buildersmate has stated, under current legislation your employers can not force you to retire at age 60. Had you already given your employer written notice that you intended to retire in May 2012?
See the following link to ACAS:
http://tinyurl.com/6zkl75j
Also, your State Pension won't be payable until June 2014 under the new legislation to equalise and increase retirement ages for men and women.
See the following link to ACAS:
http://tinyurl.com/6zkl75j
Also, your State Pension won't be payable until June 2014 under the new legislation to equalise and increase retirement ages for men and women.
Hi Twix
The pension I will get will amount to nearly 60% of my salary.
When I take into account National Insurance / extra tax and train fare into London it is not going to be worth me staying with my present employers.
This pension will not be paid until I terminate my employment.
OK I could stay until I am 65 and get 66.66% of my salary but I do nt think it is worth it as I would have forfitted 5 years pension at nearlr 60%.
The pension I will get will amount to nearly 60% of my salary.
When I take into account National Insurance / extra tax and train fare into London it is not going to be worth me staying with my present employers.
This pension will not be paid until I terminate my employment.
OK I could stay until I am 65 and get 66.66% of my salary but I do nt think it is worth it as I would have forfitted 5 years pension at nearlr 60%.
in terms of 'why'... is there any reason why they'd think you were the sort of person to do this?
what was the nature of the calls? silent? abuse? did someone say it 'sounded' like your voice?
were you on the phone at the exact moment someone said they got a call?
are there any other incidents of a similar nature that'd make you prime suspect? or did you get on with everyone before this?
what i don't understand is if the real culprit has been found, that makes you officially innocent... so why would they still be treating you as guilty...?
do the company view you as 'weird' or somehting...do they think you;re 'the type' to do stuff like that?
if all was normal before then its probably a case of circumstantial evidence and gossip and rumour... probably started by the real culprit
maybe the 'creepiness' of it has irrevocably put people off you...?
i just dont see why - given you claim you are proven innocent - why they are not apologising to you and asking you to forgive them rather than being rude and cold and treating you as though guilty...
is there something you are not telling us?
or do you think it was an elaborate set up to get rid of you - that you foiled...?
what was the nature of the calls? silent? abuse? did someone say it 'sounded' like your voice?
were you on the phone at the exact moment someone said they got a call?
are there any other incidents of a similar nature that'd make you prime suspect? or did you get on with everyone before this?
what i don't understand is if the real culprit has been found, that makes you officially innocent... so why would they still be treating you as guilty...?
do the company view you as 'weird' or somehting...do they think you;re 'the type' to do stuff like that?
if all was normal before then its probably a case of circumstantial evidence and gossip and rumour... probably started by the real culprit
maybe the 'creepiness' of it has irrevocably put people off you...?
i just dont see why - given you claim you are proven innocent - why they are not apologising to you and asking you to forgive them rather than being rude and cold and treating you as though guilty...
is there something you are not telling us?
or do you think it was an elaborate set up to get rid of you - that you foiled...?
Hi Joko
I have seen this type of situation before in a place I worked in.
People were getting phone calls at all sorts of weird hours and this one person was a prime suspect.
People thought he was weird because he was widowed in his early 30's ( his wife passed away with cancer ) had a large 5 bedroom detached house which was the most expensive one anybody had in the department when it was just him with his 2 daughters living there and he then inherited all the estate of his in laws which people thought should have been given to charity. People also said his inlaws should not have had anything to do with him once his wife (their daughter ) passed away.
They also thought he was weird because he never got married again.
He started getting weird phone calls and got the police involved.
This resulted in a popular person who could have not be the culprit being arrested.
The manager said he should have had the calls traced without involving the police and come to see him when he found out who the culprit was.
As people were acusing him surely they should have expected him to kick back in some way.
In my opinion this man was probably slightly unusual but this should not make people think he was the weird phone call suspect.
Martin
I have seen this type of situation before in a place I worked in.
People were getting phone calls at all sorts of weird hours and this one person was a prime suspect.
People thought he was weird because he was widowed in his early 30's ( his wife passed away with cancer ) had a large 5 bedroom detached house which was the most expensive one anybody had in the department when it was just him with his 2 daughters living there and he then inherited all the estate of his in laws which people thought should have been given to charity. People also said his inlaws should not have had anything to do with him once his wife (their daughter ) passed away.
They also thought he was weird because he never got married again.
He started getting weird phone calls and got the police involved.
This resulted in a popular person who could have not be the culprit being arrested.
The manager said he should have had the calls traced without involving the police and come to see him when he found out who the culprit was.
As people were acusing him surely they should have expected him to kick back in some way.
In my opinion this man was probably slightly unusual but this should not make people think he was the weird phone call suspect.
Martin
If it were me I wouldnt be able to let it rest with people thinking I had done something I hadnt. I would write a letter to my employer (or ex employer) saying that you found it distasteful and upsetting to leave knowing that you were being blamed for something you did not do. It may rankle for a long time to come if left hanging like this.
Mosaic you said ''If this firm had evidence that the victim was guilty, they would have had the pension off them pdq''. Are you sure?.
I worked in the pensions department and we paid the pension of the person who made the weird phone calls.
The only time we could stop the pension was if they commiited theft or fraud against the company.
We even paid some pensions to people who were in jail.
Martin
I worked in the pensions department and we paid the pension of the person who made the weird phone calls.
The only time we could stop the pension was if they commiited theft or fraud against the company.
We even paid some pensions to people who were in jail.
Martin
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