Film, Media & TV1 min ago
Ian Tomlinson: PC Admits 'Gross Negligence'
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PC Simon Harwood has now admitted to gross negligence relating to the incident involving Ian Tomlinson in 2009 during the G20 riots.
What would the fair minded ABers think should be appropriate punishment for him?
PC Simon Harwood has now admitted to gross negligence relating to the incident involving Ian Tomlinson in 2009 during the G20 riots.
What would the fair minded ABers think should be appropriate punishment for him?
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For those who think that the Police 'close ranks' when one of 'their own' drops in it, think again.
I knew of a female sergeant one time whose husband was an inspector in the same force. She was an alkie who went on duty p!ssed and drove the old cop cars.
Some of her colleagues realised what was going on, set up a trap for her one night, lo and behold she was stopped driving the cop car on duty whilst over the limit, was nicked, prosecuted, not only disqualified but also sacked.
Her hubby had to live with that for the rest of his service.
I knew of a female sergeant one time whose husband was an inspector in the same force. She was an alkie who went on duty p!ssed and drove the old cop cars.
Some of her colleagues realised what was going on, set up a trap for her one night, lo and behold she was stopped driving the cop car on duty whilst over the limit, was nicked, prosecuted, not only disqualified but also sacked.
Her hubby had to live with that for the rest of his service.
The original forensic examination was carried out by a pathologist, Dr. Freddy Patel who has since been struck off. At a recent medical tribunal, it was concluded that he had acted "with deficient professional performance" in his examination.At his Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, it was concluded that his work was deficient, and he was ruled unfit to practice. A review of his report into the death of Mr. Tomlinson identified 68 separate failings.
So, Freddy Patel, since struck off for being deficient and lacking professionalism, concluded it was heart failure. A second post mortem, carried out by another pathologist, noted none of the usual evidence of tissue damage typical of a heart attack. On the other hand, there was significant bruising of the liver, and given Mr. Tomlinsons history of alcohol abuse and cirrhosis, could very well have led to a catastrophic haemorrhage consequent to hitting the ground following the strike and the push.
Given that Freddy Patels evidence is discredited, it seems far more credible to me to accept the findings of the second post mortem and reject the findings from Dr. Patels initial report.
I think PC Harwood is a very lucky man. I also think that the Met need to take a good hard look at their recruitment screening process, given the past history of violence surrounding this officer.
As to the Police closing ranks - of course they do. There have been many examples over the years to show this.They are not unusual in this regard - there have been cases of doctors closing ranks for example - but given their role in society, in is more important that they exercise the very highest standards of truthfulness and transparency.
I believe he deserves some jail time, both to punish the crime, and to send out a message that putting on a uniform does not give you free reign to exercise your own predeliction for violence.
So, Freddy Patel, since struck off for being deficient and lacking professionalism, concluded it was heart failure. A second post mortem, carried out by another pathologist, noted none of the usual evidence of tissue damage typical of a heart attack. On the other hand, there was significant bruising of the liver, and given Mr. Tomlinsons history of alcohol abuse and cirrhosis, could very well have led to a catastrophic haemorrhage consequent to hitting the ground following the strike and the push.
Given that Freddy Patels evidence is discredited, it seems far more credible to me to accept the findings of the second post mortem and reject the findings from Dr. Patels initial report.
I think PC Harwood is a very lucky man. I also think that the Met need to take a good hard look at their recruitment screening process, given the past history of violence surrounding this officer.
As to the Police closing ranks - of course they do. There have been many examples over the years to show this.They are not unusual in this regard - there have been cases of doctors closing ranks for example - but given their role in society, in is more important that they exercise the very highest standards of truthfulness and transparency.
I believe he deserves some jail time, both to punish the crime, and to send out a message that putting on a uniform does not give you free reign to exercise your own predeliction for violence.
LazyGun,
Sorry, but are you living in a time warp? Harwood was cleared of manslaughter by a jury some months back, so unless there's grounds for another trial under the recently amended 'double jeopardy' laws, he's off the criminal law hook.
Nor did I try to assume that the Police never close ranks - they're no different to any other human beings - but if you believed everyone with a gripe or grudge against them, every one of them would be 'bent'.
Sorry, but are you living in a time warp? Harwood was cleared of manslaughter by a jury some months back, so unless there's grounds for another trial under the recently amended 'double jeopardy' laws, he's off the criminal law hook.
Nor did I try to assume that the Police never close ranks - they're no different to any other human beings - but if you believed everyone with a gripe or grudge against them, every one of them would be 'bent'.
LazyGun
Mr. Tomlinsons history of alcohol abuse and cirrhosis, could very well have led to a catastrophic haemorrhage consequent to hitting the ground following the strike and the push.
"Could?" Could?" there was never any mention of a cirrhotic liver, in the media.....i haven't privy to the path report.
He either had a cirrhotic liver or he didn't.
A cirrhotic liver as well as a normal liver is well protected by the ribs, which would need to be fractured....no mention of fractured ribs in the media. Liver contusion and ruptured livers need quite a force.......nothing like what was seen on video and TV....something like a road traffic accident.
Catastrophic hemorrhage?...........this varied between free fluid in the peritoneal cavity and "some blood" according to reports.......neither add up to a "catastrophic hemorrhage."
Just as i am convinced that Dr David Kelly did NOT commit suicide, I am not convinced that the blow sustained by Ian Tomlinson caused his death.
My opinion.....
Mr. Tomlinsons history of alcohol abuse and cirrhosis, could very well have led to a catastrophic haemorrhage consequent to hitting the ground following the strike and the push.
"Could?" Could?" there was never any mention of a cirrhotic liver, in the media.....i haven't privy to the path report.
He either had a cirrhotic liver or he didn't.
A cirrhotic liver as well as a normal liver is well protected by the ribs, which would need to be fractured....no mention of fractured ribs in the media. Liver contusion and ruptured livers need quite a force.......nothing like what was seen on video and TV....something like a road traffic accident.
Catastrophic hemorrhage?...........this varied between free fluid in the peritoneal cavity and "some blood" according to reports.......neither add up to a "catastrophic hemorrhage."
Just as i am convinced that Dr David Kelly did NOT commit suicide, I am not convinced that the blow sustained by Ian Tomlinson caused his death.
My opinion.....
@ Kerosene - "For those who think that the Police 'close ranks' when one of 'their own' drops in it, think again. "
You typed the above, correct? That reads to me like you saying that police do not close ranks.
You are right that I was not thinking properly about what todays court result meant. Pity really, since I do think he deserves jail time, and makes the comment that he is a very lucky man all the more apposite
You typed the above, correct? That reads to me like you saying that police do not close ranks.
You are right that I was not thinking properly about what todays court result meant. Pity really, since I do think he deserves jail time, and makes the comment that he is a very lucky man all the more apposite
@Sqad.
These are not my conclusions - These are the conclusions of the second pathologist."
It was confirmed at the 2 subsequent post mortems that he had cirrhosis of the liver. Not my fault if you haven't seen the reports :)
We will have to agree to disagree I guess. It certainly seems more than plausible to me that someone with a cirrhotic liver could suffer a catastrophic haemorrhage following a baton strike and heavy fall, as the 2 further post mortems, conducted by 2 different home office pathologist concluded.
The key evidence, that would have offered more proof, would be had they been able to examine the 3L of abdominal fluid - which Dr. Patel threw away.....
These are not my conclusions - These are the conclusions of the second pathologist."
It was confirmed at the 2 subsequent post mortems that he had cirrhosis of the liver. Not my fault if you haven't seen the reports :)
We will have to agree to disagree I guess. It certainly seems more than plausible to me that someone with a cirrhotic liver could suffer a catastrophic haemorrhage following a baton strike and heavy fall, as the 2 further post mortems, conducted by 2 different home office pathologist concluded.
The key evidence, that would have offered more proof, would be had they been able to examine the 3L of abdominal fluid - which Dr. Patel threw away.....
Lazygun.......well if it was a cirrhotic liver it would have been firmer than normal and depending upon the degree of cirrhosis, shrunk and even better hidden by the ribs and more difficult to rupture.
You are correct i did not do the PM, haven't seen the report and am not even a Pathologist.........
You are correct i did not do the PM, haven't seen the report and am not even a Pathologist.........
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