British Policemen Had Solicitor Killed

[jake-the-peg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20662412

RUC officers proposed Mr Finucane, 39, be killed, said they passed information to his killers and failed to stop the attack and then obstructed the murder investigation.

Is this enough? do we need a full enquiry to find and prosecute those responsible or was it all too long

This is not an IRA assassin we're talking about here this is a man whose crime was to stand up in court and represent them

[anotheoldgit]

Typical of your regular anti British views, which include the Police and also the Military.

You would much rather post your grievance condemning RUC officers on nothing more than a conspiracy 'say so', than the actual killer.

[ichkeria]

Yes I think the family deserve to have their wishes fulfilled. The British Prime Minister has already admitted "state collusion", while the report says there was no "state conspiracy". It's hard not to
There's no doubt that at the height of the troubles the lines between loyalist terrorism and state intelligence became very blurred, perhaps in some cases necessarily, I don't know. But this case reflects the unacceptable side of counter-terrorism, where laws are broken in the pursuit not of terrorists but those actually in the legal profession.

[sandyRoe]

AOG, of all the murders in NI this one was particularly outrageous because it seemed that every member of the 'hit squad', and their back, up were agents for one or other of the security services.

[ichkeria]

Sorry I meant to say
It's hard not to wonder exactly what is the crucial difference (between conspiracy and collusion here). Presumably it implies that Thatcher and her ministers weren't actually directing the murder of solicitors from 10 Downing Street, but this is still a grave issue.
As for whether it's too late to prosecute should it be felt appropriate - I don't think so.

[emmie]

if we see the prosecution of soldiers who were on duty on Bloody Sunday then i guess this wouldn't be that different. If ever there was a time to try and bury the past, this would be it, if you want a full peace accord in NI, then it's time to put this to rest. That doesn't mean i condone what the RUC officers did at all, however when will it be the right time to call a halt to the hatred and bitterness for all concerned.

[Booldawg]

'His family have led a high-profile campaign for a full public inquiry into the murder but Mr Cameron has ruled that out.'

not difficult to see why that is....

[jake-the-peg]

Not only that but the target was not someone suspected of terrorist offenses but a solicitor.

This is the sort of thing that we think of as happening in countries like Iran and El Salvador not in the UK!

I'm trying really hard but I cannot think of a worse case than this in modern British history certainly not since the formation of Ireland in 1921

It's *not* on the say so of the killer as AOG maintains but the result of a full investigation by senior lawyer an experienced war crimes investigator

The report is here

http://www.patfinucanereview.org/report/volume01/executive-summary-and-principal-conclusions/

and he finds collusion even by the narrowest definition and as said above David Cameron has accepted these findings.

Disputing them with that background is perverse and lacks credibility.


The question is - what now?

[emmie]

a lengthy, very costly enquiry.

[jake-the-peg]

em's point is a good one - a lot of people have had to make a lot of sacrifices in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.

I think this is different from Bloody Sunday though.

I believe that was the result of putting a particularly aggressive regiment into a sensitive situation with insufficient discipline

In short they lost their heads and started shooting and then covered it up.



This on the otherhand was deliberate and calculated - Agents of the state, RUC officers colluded, with terrorists to have a solicitor murdered.

You might say that plenty of terrorists killed plenty of civillians and you'd be right.

But the state has to be held to higher accountability than that just paying off the familly isn't good enough

[anotheoldgit]

triggerhippy

And when did you take any notice of what Mr Cameron says?

[Mick-Talbot]

What about the actual story AOG ?

Have you got an opinion?

[ichkeria]

When David Cameron (or indeed any PM anywhere) says the economy is on the mend we take no notice.
When he admits to collusion by the state in murder then we all take notice, or should do...

[Zeuhl]

//You would much rather post your grievance condemning RUC officers on nothing more than a conspiracy 'say so', than the actual killer//

Well here's the thing aog

most people expect para military killers to commit murder - it's what they do

we don't expect officers of the law to help them

what they are supposed to do is apprehend and stop killers not help them or help cover the whole thing up afterwards

maybe you can only understand the difference if you have decent values and proper understanding of what is right and wrong.

[emmie]

JTP, quite honestly i would wipe my hands of the whole affair, all of it, the killings, the bitterness and the hatred seem to go so very deep, right across the board. If that is how people wish to conduct their lives, and look at the ME to see a startling example of inter tribal warfare, then why not let them get on with it. No matter the circumstances of the original troubles, nor indeed the heinous matter of Bloody Sunday, this should all be laid to rest. if there is ever to be peace in Ireland, they have to come together and make it work. I didn't particularly care for having bombs go off outside my office in London, not once but several times, courtesy of the IRA, way back when, but as you said many have put matters aside for the greater good. Some simply cannot see it, and look what is happening about flying the Union Jack, surely it's time to say enough is enough. The more they have inquiries on matters relating to the deaths of people like Mr Finucane, the less likelihood there will be movement forward.

[emmie]

perhaps Cameron has to make these pronouncements for the sake of the peace accord, does no one think that it's time to put these grievances however justified to one side.

[ichkeria]

I don't agree at all that things can only "move forward" if you sweep the sins of the past under the carpet. That is just storing up problems for a future time. I fail to see how this particular incident is going to create tension: most people in Northern Ireland are fair-minded and while some people might take the view that there is no difference between Pat Finucane and the people he defended, they would be in a minority.
Pat Finucane's wife and children witnessed his murder at the Sunday lunch table, so I can understand perfectly well that they want to take this issue as far as they can. All unsolved crimes relating to the Troubles should be investigated pursued, not just the crimes of terrorists.

[emmie]

trigger, not sure understand, if they wish to conduct a lengthy and will be costly case, then let them, however how many people won't let these matters lie, how many killed overall in the troubles, i remember reading that it was over 3,000, similar to the WTC.

[sandyRoe]

Mrs Finucane was actually shot in the leg during the attack that saw her husband murdered.