Employment Law

[horseshoes]

Are there any ABers who know about employment laws? I'd be grateful for some advice. Thank you.

[TWR]

If you add some Info, someone may help you.

[EDDIE51]

There are several of us who know a bit, let us know the problem and we will do our best to help.

[Maydup]

What's up horseshoes?

[horseshoes]

This is about a small business which employs 2 permanent staff and the occasional casual. Each time one of the permanent staff goes off on holiday, the takings go right down. This has been happening over approx 2years (person has been employed for about 3 years). It is OBVIOUS that she is stealing, but nobody has ACTUALLY seen it happening so in that respect, there is no proof. Spreadsheets bear the facts out. Some weeks the money will be down @ £100 or more. She was suspended on full pay while preliminary investigations were made. She was then called in on Friday and asked to explain the discrepancies in the takings. She defended herself by saying it was quiet on the days when the takings were down. She also said that casuals used the till too and that on the days when they worked she "didn't touch the till". This is in fact not true as she has to cash up. The situation is destroying the business. She brought a "friend" with her who said she couldn't be sacked as nobody could PROVE her guilt. What would the situation be with regard to asking her. She is actually putting the other staff member's job at risk because the business will have to close if it goes on as it is making a loss. It is a canteen within a club. Thank you,I do appreciate your advice.

[DJHawkes]

Is it not the case still that to come under any employment legislation, you have to work where there are a minimum number of employees?

[horseshoes]

Dot, I'm not 100% certain, but possibly the company which employs her, has a large number of employees, but as I say, it's a canteen within a club for the employees of the company.

[Eve]

Ring ACAS and get their advice on the best procedure to follow to ensure that, whatever the outcome, it is done fairly and properly. Remember that, in unfair dismissals, it is the procedure they look at.

They have guidebooks you can download on their website.

Can you put more checking procedures in place, ones which do not act in contravention of any employment laws? Something that could act as a deterrent as well as picking up discrepancies in a way that the reason would be more obvious?

[DJHawkes]

anyway, the business should have loss prevention measures in place that will eliminate any opportunity. Staff should declare any sums of personal money over £10 they bring into work in a property log, they should show the amount if it is geater than £10 to a colleague. They should not take personal property into the sales area and they should also have astop and search policy in place when leaving the sales area. During a stop and search staff should be asked to check pockets and remove shoes. This should ideally be done by a manager though staff can be responsible for checking each other, though if anything occurred it could be problematic. It's about good habits and prevention.

[DJHawkes]

If this member of staff is being asked to cash up then you need to remove that responsibility and work around it. Cashing up does not need to be done at night, prepare 2 floats and cah up an hour before closing to identify any discrepancies immediately rather than spotting them a day or so later.

[DJHawkes]

more intense measures to remove opportunity and abuse of responsibility will drum hone a message and the person suspected should be made to understand that her performance is being monitored and any discrepancy is recorded in a OCL (operator conversation log) which should contain a record of any discrepancies during their shift and it should be made clear that after 3 such incidents then investigation procedings will start.

[DJHawkes]

I would also point out that if the interview on friday was a formal investigatory interview the 'friend' would not be allowed to make any comment or take part in any of the conversation. In fact unless the person had not been offered the opportunity to bring along another person to the meeting then the other person had no right to be on works premises.

[wolf63]

I am confused - you say that the takings go down when she is not there. Surely it should be the other way around.

[Zacs-Master]

Put up CCTV cameras connected to your Office PC

[DJHawkes]

i think horseshoes means the money goes down, not the actual sales

[DJHawkes]

Does the till used hold all the cash or is there a counter cache box underneath where bulk notes can be put aside? It should be no more than a couple of notes in a till like that at any one time, again, it is avoiding temptation and opportunity. If she is taking money after cashing up then she must be removed from that role.

[horseshoes]

Wolf, the takings go down when the OTHER lady is off. As soon as the other lady comes back, takings go up again. It is OBVIOUSLY the said member of staff is stealing, but I think my question is - could she be sacked because the evidence (as such as it is) points to her guilt. She is making out that it COULD BE the casuals who are stealing, but it isn't. Can she be sacked because of a VERY reasonable suspicion? Or does SOMEBODY actually have to catch her. By the way, in a similar vein, she feeds her family there and NEVER pays for them. Is that a form of stealing too?

[DJHawkes]

yes it is unless in the staff terms and conditions it allows that, if it does then everyone can feed their family for free that works there. It does sound as though there has been a lack of supervision and possibly this is because those supervising are afraid of their own skins if they suddenly get serious about this, strikes me this person is too cocky and knows her line manager is inexperiences and is getting away with it all because of that.

[THECORBYLOON]

I doubt very much if a dismissal based upon a suspicion of theft from the till would stand up based upon what you have said. If she were to be dismissed for misconduct and claimed JSA, the employer would be contacted to obtain the sequence of events leading to dismissal. You have no evidence of theft since you can not say for certain what the takings were duting her shift. Other folk have access to the till so cannot say for certain she was responsible. If that were the basis for dismissal, it would be said that misconduct had not been proven. You say she has been letting her family eat there without payment, if you have evidence of that, then that would be theft and misconduct would be shown on that basis alone. Have you thought about using marked £20 notes and checking to see if they are in the till and the time the till is checked? I say use a £20 note since it would not be given back in change.

[Maydup]

I would phone ACAS in the morning. They will help you to resolve this and their advice is free.

Monday-Friday, 8am-8pm and Saturday, 9am-1pm: 08457 47 47 47.

You are not a court of law and in these circumstances you do not have to prove guilt, but you do have to follow a procedure and describe how you came to your fair conclusion that the employee is stealing from you.

With their support you will be able to do that.

[horseshoes]

Dot, think you have hit the nail on the head! Top and bottom of it is like this: the club has been run for years with various people helping themselves to gaming machine money, tote money etc etc etc ad nauseum. Now a GROUP of people, rather than an individual have taken over and in 2 years have turned the club around from being 23k in the red to being @ 13k in profit - no mean achievement. They have put (pretty obvious) systems in place, such as no single person empties the fruit machines, all monies are counted by more than one person. They have renegotiated with breweries, utilities etc etc and have brought ALL their bills down. Now that the club itself is on an even keel, they have to look at the canteen. The accountant has recommended that they close it as it is running at a loss. Some of the members would be VERY sorry to see it close, so they do feel a certain loyalty to them to try to keep it open. The 2 ladies who run it are very much in charge of themselves. There are no other staff there until the barman comes in at lunchtime. The ladies go home at @ 1.30. One lady is as honest as the day is long, and as soon as she is on holiday, the takings plummet. The spreadsheets show this. That is the only "evidence" they have. A normal day, takings could be @ £80 - £100, but when the "suspect" is there on her own or with a casual, it can go down to as little as £3. She just says it was quiet!!!!! She also hints that it could be the casual as she is busy cooking. She does however cash up.