Stealing From Your Own Business

[MrKing]

I have a business partnership (no formal agreement signed), we are trading on good will. We can both prove ownership of the business (bank acc. etc), but no further details are on paper.

I wish to sell the machinery but the partner does not.

Can I sell the machinery legally to another person? As the kit is half each of ours, could this be classed as theft, surely I cannot steal what is half mine?

Once the kit is sold I intend to offer the partner their fair share of the sale price.

[sherrardk]

If you sell the machinery how will you make whatever the machinery is used to make?

[pixie373]

If it's co-owned, you'll need their permission first. Did you go halves on buying it?

[MrKing]

We paid cash for the equipment, half each. There is no receipt for the sale however.

[Old_Jim]

It would not be a criminal offence. As a partner, you can legally sell business assets.

In the absence of a written agreement, there is an assumed partnership agreement with you each entitled to half of the capital and half of the profits. Any business decisions regarding the sale of fixed assets should be taken jointly. If you act unilaterally, you are in breach of the assumed agreement and your partner is entitled to damages.

[solvitquick]

Dear Mr King,
If your long term aim is to get out of private business, then that as such would be wise.
You seem devoid of knowledge of the basics or the reponsibilities of running a private business. Certainly your communication skills (viz-aviz your partner) are the pits.
I've heard of the papreless office - but the paperless business, never!
No you cannot sell the machinery without your partner's permission!
The business trades on goodwill - from whom and for what?
What does your business bank manager say about your plan - oh don't tell me, you haven't discussed it with him!
You do not mention compensation to your partner regarding buying him out - businesses don't come free nor run themselves.
As the business does not need the machinery, why did you buy it and what are the future business plans, if any?
I just hope you are not trading while insolvent - i.e. have creditors whom the business cannot pay.
Good luck in all honest and fair dealing - you need it.
SIQ.

[Peter Pedant]

It is clear that there isnt a line down half you business with one lot of machinery painted read and labelled Tom and the other green and labelled Dick.

if the machinery is as you say half yours it is clear you cant sell your partners half and then confirm that it is his by saying now I have done it do you want half.


PP

[EDDIE51]

You could sell your share of the business to someone else but they could not remove the machinery , they would just own your half instead of you. Then again you have a problem as there is nothing on paper to say you own it.

[cassa333]

Why do you want to sell and the partner doesn't?

Is it just to get some money for yourself (even if you intend to give the partner their share) or to stop the partnership?

If it is to get money then try another avenue. If it is to end the partnership then sell your half of the partnership. Don't make it difficult for the partner to carry on in the business just bcause you want out!!

[FredPuli43]

You may terminate the partnership by this action and the other partner will be entitled to their share of all the joint assets forthwith, everything in fact.

It is possible for one joint owner to steal jointly owned property. They would have to be appropriating, here disposing of, it dishonestly. It can be argued that someone who disposes of such property because they believe it is in the interests of the business and who accounts for half of the proceeds cannot be seen as acting dishonestly.

[solvitquick]

Dr MrKing,
You seem reticent to give fuller details, despite numerous questions.
Can you please answer the following easy questions if you need clarification/help:
(a) What is the nature of the business?
(b) Is all or part of the machinery vital to the healthy running of the business?
(c) Is the "half" of the machinery you wish to sell essential to the half you hope to leave to your partner in order to maintain the business?
(d) In the highly unlikely event that you can legally sell any part of the business without your partner's permisson, who will value the kit, and indeed the business if you leave it without the equipment to continue trading?
SIQ.

[solvitquick]

Dear MrKing,
The simplest question of all.
Having failed to get a kind encouraging O.K. fron anyone, ARE YOU STILL THERE?
SIQ.

[solvitquick]

Well that's him sorted. Well done sherrardk and pixie - he answered you and skidaddled!
SIQ.

[boxtops]

It's his first question, too, SIQ

[solvitquick]

And his last I hope boxy :).
SIQ.

[pixie373]

Oops. Scaring them off in 6 minutes :-\

[solvitquick]

No "oops" about it pixie dear. You, sherrardk and divebuddy spelt out the facts of life to this goon.
It was his concern about "stealing" which rang the alarm bells with me.
I suppose he is busy with his metal-grinder cutting each bit of kit in two - one marked "his" and one marked "mine".
A bit like a disastrous marriage really :).
SIQ.