Aprehending A Shoplifterq

[cassa333]

Listening to a couple of people in a shop this afternoon and one was saying to the other that you are not allowed to stop a shoplifter outside the shop as you could be arrested if you physicaly grabbed them to stop them getting away. They were ssaying that all you can do is take a photo and give it to the poplice.

Is this true? or have they misinterpreted something?

[Peter Pedant]

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The poplice dont do narfing - besides spy on dead black people - have you seen todays news ?

It used to be that you could arrest someone if you reasonably believed they had committed an offence AND they had committed that offence.

The police could do it on reasonable belief alone ( sans any offence )

but you know God it changes every year

And as for fear of photoes - God it is pervasive. The first words of the police at Trooper Rigby's murder ? Not is he dead ? but
get them out of here they are all taking photos

[Peter Pedant]

Oh that was because he could have paid .... ( he hadn't left the shop )

La\st week in Oxfam where I er write my novels
a girl prevented a drunk from leaving and said just give it to me and I will open the door......

he did

[New Judge]

I’ve cribbed this but was aware of the rules regarding a “citizen’s arrest” and this explains it more succinctly that I can:

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Any person can arrest a person who is in the act of committing an indictable offence or anyone whom he reasonably suspects to be committing such an offence, if it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead and it is necessary to arrest the person for one of the below reasons,

To prevent the person in question:

causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
suffering physical injury;
causing loss of or damage to property;
or making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
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So - shoplifting (i.e. Theft) is an indictable offence (i.e. it can be dealt with in the Crown Court) and the arrest can be made to prevent loss of property and to prevent the miscreant making off before plod arrives.

And contrary to popular belief it is not necessary for a shoplifter (i.e. a Thief) to leave a store in order for the offence to be made out. If the suspect carries out a course of action which would convince a court that he intended to permanently deprive the owner of their goods (for example stuffs them inside his coat or into a baco-foil lined bag and they had no means to pay on them) a conviction is likely. It is simply easier to prove once they have left the shop without paying.

[New Judge]

And I forgot to add that all the usual rules concerning "reasonable force" etc come into play when consideing a Citizen's arrest.

[RATTER15]

and if you harm that person in the course of arresting or restraining him/her you could face the weight of the law.

[factor-fiction]

Yes, NewJudge- your point about reasonable force makes me wonder whether Bouncer33 should be able to submit a complaint, have his caution removed and an apology plus maybe compensation

[DrFilth]

do in manchester in a big store and they drag you back in
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTTZbEoKpxo

[Eve]

Hmmm, that scene looks pretty familiar, so Manchester!

I've seen shoplifters dragged back in shops quite often, one of the usual ones being a discount shop.

One of the most brutal I ever saw though was a man being dragged down multiple flights of stairs by a number of bouncers in a bar, nearly knocking me and others out of the way, I did wonder about the legalities of that.

When I worked in a supermarket it always seems to be the rule that they had to leave the store before being apprehended.

[RATTER15]

From what I could see in that clip, the security guards were detaining a man using approved restraint methods, it looked ten times worse than it actually was because of all the hullabaloo going on.

[Eve]

It was not a good area for that, at that time anyway, Primark was undergoing a big refit the other side of the tram stop and they have barriers all down that side of the tram stop funnelling a lot of people into quite a narrow area, which is probably why it looks like so many people are spectating, sure plenty were mind!

[New Judge]

Yes Eve, it may have been your company's rules (or policy). As I said, it makes the matter simpler to prove should the defendant deny the charge. However, it is not necessary for him to leave the store to prove the offence.

[SeaJayPea]

Am I alone in finding the Scottish guy doing all the chat the most annoying part of that video DrFilth posted?

And, from reading New Judge's post I get the idea that what they were doing isn't illegal in itself, just that they render themselves liable for prosecution if they injure the guy they're capturing. Am I right?

[johnpagan]

Rubbish. Unless the person has left the shop it is not shoplifting. The person has to leave the premises with the unpaid goods for an offense to be committed. That does not however give the security, shop staff permission to physically assault the person.

[RATTER15]

John I am afraid you are wrong, If someone inside the shop is concealing things with no means to pay it will be proof enough for a shoplifting charge. I also did not see that the security staff were assaulting him, they looked like they were restraining him using approved techniques, the fact that he was creating and other members of the public were making a lot of noise does not mean he was being assaulted.
Do you think they should have just let him go?