Drinking Shandy At A Wedding

feebee102 | 14:41 Mon 13th Oct 2014 | Law

45 Answers

Afternoon.
Quick question. I have worked for over 11 year in a pub and have always served over 16 year olds a shandy as the Licencing act of 2003 states .......Under 18? Adults are not allowed to buy alcohol on behalf of under 18's in a licensed premises. In the new licensing laws, the only exception is for 16 or 17 year olds who are allowed to drink beer, wine or cider at a meal out with adults (but they may not buy the alcohol themselves).. At the weekend we attended a wedding. On the night we where sat with my 16 year old son eating our buffet food when one of the security lot came over and snatched my sons shandy away stating he wasn't old enough. I never caused a scene as I didnt want to spoil the evening. Am I right or does each venue have their own rules.

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feebee102

Question Author

Eddie I said I served shandy to those having meals, not just to anyone ordering one for an under 18, I know the law and the fines incurred . Asked if a buffet constitutes as a meal !!!!!!

BlackadderV

Shorn of the legalese I would posit that 'table meal' means a knife and fork job.

feebee102

Question Author

So we where well with in our rights then ?

feebee102

Question Author

We used knifes and forks and even spoons !!!!

Zeuhl

chris's post of 17.33 makes no mention of cutlery

the key for a 'table meal' seems to be that you are seated, but not seated at a Bar or other 'serving' place

Sycamore3House

In licensing law a table meal needs to be eaten with a knife and fork. A buffet would not be such.

hc4361

That means that if you are seated at table eating and other people are standing round using your table to put the drinks on, it is not a table meal.

One court decided that a 'substantial sandwich with pickles and beetroot' constituted a 'meal' but another court decided it did not.

Zeuhl

^

sycamore

a 'buffet' does not preclude use of 'knife and fork'

nor does a sit down meal necessarily require them

what about a chinese meal - using chopsticks?

or a traditional asian/lebanese meal - using bread?

hc4361

Of course the licencee is just going to point out he has the legal right to refuse alcohol to anyone (providing that decision is not contrary to the discrimination laws).

Zeuhl

hc

it makes no mention of 'other people putting their drinks down'

/seated at a table, or at a counter or other structure which serves the purpose of a table and is not used for the service of refreshments for consumption by persons not seated at a table or structure serving the purpose of a table. /

it just refers to 'the service' of those drinks to others not seated ie you can't be seated at the Bar

hc4361

You're right, Zeuhl, I read the 'for' as 'or'.

Zeuhl

No probs hc

though i think your point at 18.11 trumps most arguments

hc4361

Thanks. Another issue with a buffet is how long can one person conceivably eat a buffet meal? I have been to some functions where the buffet food has been available from early afternoon to late at night, eight hours or more.

If legislation wasn't open to interpretation there would be a lot less work for the legal beagles, but each piece of legislation would be an encyclopaedia.

It makes for interesting debate but we have still not answered the OP's question.

Slapshot

Inevitably those under 18 (allegedly) wil gripe whine and moan because they think adults serving behind the bar have "got it in for them". The law and rules are there and any licencee will do what they can to protect themselves and their premises, who can blame them. Then again 16/17 years olds think they know better than the rest of humanity anyway.....

Feebee; I think you were right not to make a scene and it's unfortunate that the security people didn't really know how to deal with the situation properly. I'm not sure just how many people know the specifics of the law, what Chris has posted was new to me.

EDDIE51

A 'table meal' in this context means a meal where the food is served to the diners while they are seated at a table( a proper restaurant meal.) The food and drinks have to be served to the people by the staff while they are seated at a table to eat.
It does not mean a buffet where people help themselves to the food, it has to be served to the diners by waiting staff.
The drinks have to be ordered from the table and then brought to the table by staff, NOT ordered from the bar and carried over to the table by the diners themselves. Places where you order your food and drinks at the bar and then it is bought to the table are not included.
It is aimed at formal restaurants which have table service only. Even then it is only 'allowed' not a 'right' the staff have the last word on it.

Slapshot

Thanks Eddie, that clarifies further

woofgang

That buffet comment is interesting hc, A friend of mine works in a local hotel and they are not allowed to leave a buffet out for longer than 4 hours. Apparently its to do with food refrigeration hygiene rules. At the end of the four hours, the party goers may take the food away or it has to be removed and disposed of.

hc4361

Woofgang, it's not unusual for a buffet to replenished constantly so hopefully no food is out for more than 4 hours.