Alcohol Licensing Law (Scotland)

[jim360]

Hi all,

There have been a few incidents where I've been somewhat puzzled as to what the law actually says about alcohol purchasing. In particular, what surprises me is why I seem to need proof of age when (a) I'm rather older than 18, and indeed 25 which is nominally the cut-off point. Presumably I still retain my youthful good looks... and (b) I never actually buy alcohol anyway. It seems totally nonsensical that I should need to provide proof that I'm over 18 when the only drink I ever buy is orange juice.

In a similar and totally bizarre incident, I once was visiting my friend in Oxford, and she was attempting to buy a bottle of wine (for formal dinner, perhaps) the night after. When I was not going to be there. She had ID, and was the one making the purchase. I did not, and despite not being involved in the transaction in any way, the shop assistant refused the purchase and she had to buy the bottle later.

Seriously, what? It was my understanding that in England, there was no prohibition on people drinking alcohol in private, so long as they were over the age of 5. In Scotland this may not be the case, but on the other hand there are no grounds to presume that someone buying orange juice is trying to sneak a bit of alcohol in on the side.

There is an obvious answer to this, I suppose, in that I could just carry ID (possibly in the form of a provisional drivers license), but the whole situation is totally stupid. Is there a legal requirement to check everyone's age, regardless of the drink they are buying, or is it just certain bartenders being pig-headed?

[Svejk]

Did you have a bottle of SmartPrice Vodka in see-through bag at the time, jim?
^Well known student trick. ;o)

[Zacs-Master]

It would seem that you could have saved yourself a lot of hassle by getting one of these. As you're 26 next it probably isn't worth it now:
https://www.youngscot.org/card

[Persever0]

The last, I suspect. It is illegal for an over-seventeen to buy prohibited alcohol for consumption by an under-eighteen, but as an over-fifteen could legally drink wine on private premises or indeed with a meal in a restaurant, it seems excessive. Probably a house rule to avoid even the suspicion of not obeying the law.

[Zacs-Master]

I suspect Svejk may have a point in that the bar person may have suspected you were buying a mixer for your own alcohol. A not uncommon practise I believe.

[douglas9401]

"Probably a house rule to avoid even the suspicion of not obeying the law"

There it is in a nutshell.

[EDDIE51]

The rule is that bar person or sales assistant MUST refuse sale if they suspect that the buyer is under 18 or that the alcohol MAY be passed on to someone under 18. The person selling is PERSONALLY liable to a £50,000 fine and 6 months in prison if they sell to an under 18 or drink is passed on to an under 18. In view of this many sales persons will not sell to anyone who has no ID or who is accompanied by an under 18. They just can not risk 6 months inside and a £50,000 fine!

[Zacs-Master]

But that's alcohol Eddie, not orange juice.

[BlackadderV]

The solution is simple. If a person of legal age wishes to buy alcohol in the presence of someone who may, or may appear to be, under age, just tell that person to go outside the shop whilst the purchaser goes to the checkout. Inconvenient, I know, but it depends upon your priority; having an argument about the law or getting the booze.

[Zacs-Master]

That's ok in a shop Blackadder but what about a bar?

[EDDIE51]

If you buy orange juice in a bar only over 18s can order or even stand at the bar this applies to all drinks/snacks. Again it is part of the law . Many bars have a line on the floor around the bar and a notice 'no under 18,s past this line'.

[Zacs-Master]

Not sure if this has been posted before:
In October 2011, the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 was amended by the introduction of a new mandatory condition for all premises licences and occasional licences. This provides that there must be an age verification policy in relation to the sale of alcohol on the premises.

The law has set a minimum age of 25 years for the policy where it appears to the person selling the alcohol that the customer may be under the age of 25 years.

As a result of this change in the law, customers in any premises in Scotland licensed for the sale of alcohol, including pubs, clubs, restaurants, supermarkets and convenience stores may be asked to produce identification where they appear under the age of twenty five to prove that they are over the age of eighteen and can lawfully purchase alcohol.
http://www.challenge25.org

[BlackadderV]

Clearly this law applies only to Scotland. I have not seen a bar in England where such restrictions apply.

[Zacs-Master]

I think that's accepted Blackadder.

[SirOracle]

Yes Blackadder Licencing is a devolved matter in Gods Country. ;-)

[Zacs-Master]

Through my work, I have dealings with the Scottish licensing authorities and their system is draconian to say the least compared to the UKs.

[Svejk]

I've looked like an OAP since I was 15 so it wouldn't have affected me but doesn't anybody else feel all this identity card business is distasteful?

[BlackadderV]

Does that mean that 15 year old lads can no longer go into an offie and buy a bottle of Buckies? This is wanton destruction of established Scottish heritage.

[Cloverjo]

I wonder about the validity of the Challenge 25 law. Two different shop or bar workers in different places could look at a person in his twenties. One might be convinced he looks about 25, the other might think he looks a bit younger. How can you pass a law on people's subjective opinions? And how would it be proved that a worker actually thought a customer was under 25 but didn't bother to check?

[SirOracle]

Only in the West Blackadder. No Buckie. in sophisticated Edinburgh !!

[BlackadderV]

25 is a smokescreen. As long as the seller is satisfied that the person is over 18 he should serve him (all other things being equal, e.g. the purchaser is clearly drunk)