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Is My Shorthold Tenancy Agreement Invalid?
31 Answers
On discovering my landlord had not paid the council tax he had "collected" from me for many years,I went to see the local council tax office.
It transpired that the property I have lived in for 10 years (with bona fida deposit ,STA) was only given permission to be a holiday rental. There are 5 similar properties where I live.
The council have on record an investigation for similar breech on the properties in 2000 but the investigating planning enforcement officer had failed to complete his enquiry.
Does this mean that my tenancy agreement is invalid?
Advice on this would be greatly received.
It transpired that the property I have lived in for 10 years (with bona fida deposit ,STA) was only given permission to be a holiday rental. There are 5 similar properties where I live.
The council have on record an investigation for similar breech on the properties in 2000 but the investigating planning enforcement officer had failed to complete his enquiry.
Does this mean that my tenancy agreement is invalid?
Advice on this would be greatly received.
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In your situation I would get down to your local CAB asap ! They are very good with advice in this type of situation. But if your landlord has been renting out a holiday home as a permanent residence it could be a problem.
Did you not realize that it is the tenants responsibility to pay Council tax rather than the landlord's?
Did you not realize that it is the tenants responsibility to pay Council tax rather than the landlord's?
I don't believe your AST agreement would be invalid, based on knowledge and a little bit of extra research.
It might help if you indicated what outcome you are hoping for from this debarcle, for which you would seem to be entirely the innocent party. I am aware of your previous post - this one:
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I ask this because, if you want out, surely it is a simple case of giving the necessary notice (probably two months), so I can't envisage what advantage it gives you, if your agreement could now be declared invalid.
Briefly setting out what's I think has happened here and my analysis of the situation:-
There's potentially a planning issue between the landlord and the local authority because of the holiday let issue. There are various leading test cases over this (because of potential change of use class) including Moore v. SSCLG [2012] EWCA Civ 1202. However if the landlord has been doing this for over ten years, none of this matters as the landlord will have automatically gained lawful entitlement to use for the property in the current manner (which is Use Class C3a).
There's the issue of the landlord not registering your deposit in one of the approved schemes. But I don't believe this voids your agreement.
There's the issue between you and the local authority over payment of council tax (which you have unwittingly paid over to the landlord).
What are the local authority saying about that last issue to you?
It might help if you indicated what outcome you are hoping for from this debarcle, for which you would seem to be entirely the innocent party. I am aware of your previous post - this one:
http://
I ask this because, if you want out, surely it is a simple case of giving the necessary notice (probably two months), so I can't envisage what advantage it gives you, if your agreement could now be declared invalid.
Briefly setting out what's I think has happened here and my analysis of the situation:-
There's potentially a planning issue between the landlord and the local authority because of the holiday let issue. There are various leading test cases over this (because of potential change of use class) including Moore v. SSCLG [2012] EWCA Civ 1202. However if the landlord has been doing this for over ten years, none of this matters as the landlord will have automatically gained lawful entitlement to use for the property in the current manner (which is Use Class C3a).
There's the issue of the landlord not registering your deposit in one of the approved schemes. But I don't believe this voids your agreement.
There's the issue between you and the local authority over payment of council tax (which you have unwittingly paid over to the landlord).
What are the local authority saying about that last issue to you?
^Yes it's your responsibility as the tenant to be sure the council tax has been paid. Saying that you handed it to the landlord and thought he was handing it over is not enough. There will be over 10 years back tax to pay. If, as I assume will happen, the landlord can not pay it I don't know what the council will do about it. They will I am sure, ask you to pay it. There may well be a penalty for trying to avoid the tax by reporting the property as a holiday let which the landlord will have to pay.
You really do need to get to the CAB for advice asap!
You really do need to get to the CAB for advice asap!
Eddie. I have linked the two questions together because they seem to be. The general point I was making, perhaps flippantly, is that the easy answer to most factual-based questions is 'go and talk to CAB'. Which seems rather pointless advice if someone with specialist knowledge is seeking to engage with OP in resolving.
This question appears to be an extension of the previous. That is why I am asking what outcome the OP belives she is seeking. Because I (like you, perhaps) do not see how the potential planning issue, or indeed the validity of the tenancy agreement, automatically gets her off the CT hook. And this appears to be the biggest issue facing her. Unless she can tell us differently.
This question appears to be an extension of the previous. That is why I am asking what outcome the OP belives she is seeking. Because I (like you, perhaps) do not see how the potential planning issue, or indeed the validity of the tenancy agreement, automatically gets her off the CT hook. And this appears to be the biggest issue facing her. Unless she can tell us differently.
boys boys !
stop snapping at each other and love one another !
and no this isnt the law thread it is the business thread
and yes there is something in the air today as there is also a lot of snapping going on in sandy spoof jokey - poor Jade smugglers thread....
I have to say that the main thing was the probably huge outstanding CT bill - where it seems very unfair that the innocent party should be made to pay the back log - who had acted in good faith. we havent mentioned the managers who took the payment ....
I still think the contract is a valid AST - as questioning in court landlords title ( which he would have to do here ) is grounds for immediate repudiation of contract. some question about whether it cuts across the housing acts, need for notice and so on - so you can chuck them out immediately / apply for immediate eviction
and I have to say - I dont think I would have gone to the council office without a back up visit to the CAB -
all that has been achieved by the council visit is that he knows that there is ahuge outstanding bill which he kinda knows anyway and THEY know there is someone they can chase at that address ....
but as they say - what is done is done
stop snapping at each other and love one another !
and no this isnt the law thread it is the business thread
and yes there is something in the air today as there is also a lot of snapping going on in sandy spoof jokey - poor Jade smugglers thread....
I have to say that the main thing was the probably huge outstanding CT bill - where it seems very unfair that the innocent party should be made to pay the back log - who had acted in good faith. we havent mentioned the managers who took the payment ....
I still think the contract is a valid AST - as questioning in court landlords title ( which he would have to do here ) is grounds for immediate repudiation of contract. some question about whether it cuts across the housing acts, need for notice and so on - so you can chuck them out immediately / apply for immediate eviction
and I have to say - I dont think I would have gone to the council office without a back up visit to the CAB -
all that has been achieved by the council visit is that he knows that there is ahuge outstanding bill which he kinda knows anyway and THEY know there is someone they can chase at that address ....
but as they say - what is done is done
QED. At least that's something all three of us agree on.
Snapping? Who said anything about snapping? I was merely trying to dissuade the OP clearing off to CAB after I'd taken time and trouble to actually answer the question asked, having linked it what happened before (psychic or what).
Think I'll take a lie-down now for a bit while the OP decides whether she's going to answer my response at 09.28. It had been over a day since the question went up and no-one else had bothered to answer/research it. Law, Finance, Jobs - its all the same section to me. Anything but the pontification and pointlessness of Chatterbank and News.
Snapping? Who said anything about snapping? I was merely trying to dissuade the OP clearing off to CAB after I'd taken time and trouble to actually answer the question asked, having linked it what happened before (psychic or what).
Think I'll take a lie-down now for a bit while the OP decides whether she's going to answer my response at 09.28. It had been over a day since the question went up and no-one else had bothered to answer/research it. Law, Finance, Jobs - its all the same section to me. Anything but the pontification and pointlessness of Chatterbank and News.
Thank you for your comments.
Perhaps I should offer some further information.
At the time of taking this tenancy, my partner (now husband) and I both had other properties (which we owned )where we were registered and paying our respective council taxes.
The AST for this property showed the monthly rent. The landlord gave us a piece of paper showing the rent included water and sewage, he had added council tax to increase the amount we were to pay. We still have the paper.
The water and sewage had to be included as we have no meters and a shared cess pit.
The landlord had received a rural grant to turn old farm buildings to holiday lets.
It seems this was not wholly operational as permanent tenants lived here before we did.
The council tax we paid is over £10, 000 but the figure calculated by the council is over £1, 000 less than this. The council are still "investigating" but did mention that perhaps only 6 years may be claimed by them. Statute of limitations?
It looks like a win win for the landlord. Charging council tax - claiming business rate relief - huge grant to renovate useless buildings and ignore planning conditions to get residential lettings without any penalties.
I guess our satisfaction is that we can sleep easy at night!
Perhaps I should offer some further information.
At the time of taking this tenancy, my partner (now husband) and I both had other properties (which we owned )where we were registered and paying our respective council taxes.
The AST for this property showed the monthly rent. The landlord gave us a piece of paper showing the rent included water and sewage, he had added council tax to increase the amount we were to pay. We still have the paper.
The water and sewage had to be included as we have no meters and a shared cess pit.
The landlord had received a rural grant to turn old farm buildings to holiday lets.
It seems this was not wholly operational as permanent tenants lived here before we did.
The council tax we paid is over £10, 000 but the figure calculated by the council is over £1, 000 less than this. The council are still "investigating" but did mention that perhaps only 6 years may be claimed by them. Statute of limitations?
It looks like a win win for the landlord. Charging council tax - claiming business rate relief - huge grant to renovate useless buildings and ignore planning conditions to get residential lettings without any penalties.
I guess our satisfaction is that we can sleep easy at night!
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