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Fraud.
If a husband dies with Private pensions only on the life of the husband and his wife doesn't know this condition is present and does not notify the Pension Company of his death and continues receiving these pensions, what action in Law would the company take?
Would the wife's ignorance of the pension limitation be accepted?
Would the wife's ignorance of the pension limitation be accepted?
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I think there’s the thin like between what they “could” do and what they “would” do, and I think it would probably based on how ignorant the wife truly is, how much cash she has received, and also the financial state of the pension fund, ie can they stand the loss, how long was it going on for and do they believe it was a genuine error.
NOBA Going to court costs money. If the widow doesn’t have the money to repay or to pay costs then it may be financially expedient for the company to write off the loss.
NOBA Going to court costs money. If the widow doesn’t have the money to repay or to pay costs then it may be financially expedient for the company to write off the loss.
I do not believe that anyone is so stupid that they don't know or think that the death of their spouse should not be reported. For one thing if he controlled the bank accounts so much she would have to keep his account open. That in itself is not allowed.
Even if the husband looks after all financial aspects of their lives, unless there is some sort of learning difficulties there are procedures to follow and it would be flagged up then.
If it were just a matter of weeks it is debatable as to prosecution but longer or years where a lot more money is involved......
Even if the husband looks after all financial aspects of their lives, unless there is some sort of learning difficulties there are procedures to follow and it would be flagged up then.
If it were just a matter of weeks it is debatable as to prosecution but longer or years where a lot more money is involved......
when my DH died I had a fairly swift learning curve to get the finances sorted...even though we had never had secrets, part of his “job” was to manage the big finances. We discussed the decisions and then he did what was needed. Luckily I knew what I didn’t know and am the sort of person who can defer grief. I could imagine that its not difficult for someone to be so upset and confused that stuff, even important stuff, gets missed.
Exactly this happened among my acquaintance. The widower failed ( for whatever reason - could possibly claim incipient alzheimers ) to report the death of his wife. When he eventually died, the executors, who knew nothing about the "must-report-the-first-death" clause in the pension arrangements, informed the pension company, who then enquired about the first death ( twenty years before). They demanded and got repayment of the excess pension. Then the executors tried to reclaim the income tax which had been paid on the returned money. Unfortunately, there is a time limit on refunds of tax, so the family suffered the loss twice over, as it were.
In your case, the widow could possibly be charged with some offence, if the pension company could prove she should have known about the clause. Usually, these pension companies send out an annual letter saying "please confirm that Mr X and Mrs X are still alive". If she returned this letter claiming that Mr X was still alive, that looks like proof of fraud. However, the pension company would probably settle for the repayment, and probably not charge a very elderly widow with an offence.
In your case, the widow could possibly be charged with some offence, if the pension company could prove she should have known about the clause. Usually, these pension companies send out an annual letter saying "please confirm that Mr X and Mrs X are still alive". If she returned this letter claiming that Mr X was still alive, that looks like proof of fraud. However, the pension company would probably settle for the repayment, and probably not charge a very elderly widow with an offence.
As has been said, most likely outcome is widow has to repay.
The pension company COULD make a report to the police, but it is probably unlikely. And even if they do, the chances of the police knowing what to do with it are slim. And even if they did, they have to prove dishonesty, as opposed to an oversight.
The pension company COULD make a report to the police, but it is probably unlikely. And even if they do, the chances of the police knowing what to do with it are slim. And even if they did, they have to prove dishonesty, as opposed to an oversight.
// Interesting answers to a problem which i imagine occurs more than we may think.......from oversight rather than dishonesty.//
for chrissakes Sqad even a surgeon would notice if his patient were dead
In the UK ( I know you are in Ethpanya) there is such a kerfuffle over a death that the spouse cant really say: I er didnt notice.
The children would anyway hur hur hur looking for inheritances etc so they would certainly notice
There is a whole load of other things you have to do
you know death certificate and burying the old bugga
funeral, wake etc.
I mean it is pretty difficult for the widow to say later with a straight face: "oops is he ?" [dead]. Did she pay tax on his behalf whilst he was dead ? if she stopped then it is more difficult to say that she was unaware the spouse was deceased.
The NHS - the widows part is about 50% the pensioner's and I wonder if anyone would accept an auld widow with tears streaming down her careworn face saying nay warbling with knarled fingers plucking at the dock: "My husbands NHS pension is mine"
The obvious answer is - no it isnt. .... or even "you know it isnt"
Pension cheques would be different. Most people can tell a dead payee John Smith from a live one - Jean Smith - and would expect Jean to be able to. Not telling the bank that your husband has died and your joint account is now single strikes me as a high risk activity.
Any benefits overpaid you would expect to have to repay.
There is a case where some old leddy buried her husband in the back garden ( I mean come on he WAS dead before) and claimed his pension for 28 y. She died and I think the estate had a repayment claim.
// Would the wife's ignorance of the pension limitation be accepted?//
as a defence to a criminal charge of conversion ( or whatever it is nowdays - Fraud) may be especially if she had made a voluntary declaration. ( oops my husband died last year and I didnt notice but now I do ....)
but there may well be a claim for repayment.
I would say doing it for a year is OK
anything longer strains belief.
for chrissakes Sqad even a surgeon would notice if his patient were dead
In the UK ( I know you are in Ethpanya) there is such a kerfuffle over a death that the spouse cant really say: I er didnt notice.
The children would anyway hur hur hur looking for inheritances etc so they would certainly notice
There is a whole load of other things you have to do
you know death certificate and burying the old bugga
funeral, wake etc.
I mean it is pretty difficult for the widow to say later with a straight face: "oops is he ?" [dead]. Did she pay tax on his behalf whilst he was dead ? if she stopped then it is more difficult to say that she was unaware the spouse was deceased.
The NHS - the widows part is about 50% the pensioner's and I wonder if anyone would accept an auld widow with tears streaming down her careworn face saying nay warbling with knarled fingers plucking at the dock: "My husbands NHS pension is mine"
The obvious answer is - no it isnt. .... or even "you know it isnt"
Pension cheques would be different. Most people can tell a dead payee John Smith from a live one - Jean Smith - and would expect Jean to be able to. Not telling the bank that your husband has died and your joint account is now single strikes me as a high risk activity.
Any benefits overpaid you would expect to have to repay.
There is a case where some old leddy buried her husband in the back garden ( I mean come on he WAS dead before) and claimed his pension for 28 y. She died and I think the estate had a repayment claim.
// Would the wife's ignorance of the pension limitation be accepted?//
as a defence to a criminal charge of conversion ( or whatever it is nowdays - Fraud) may be especially if she had made a voluntary declaration. ( oops my husband died last year and I didnt notice but now I do ....)
but there may well be a claim for repayment.
I would say doing it for a year is OK
anything longer strains belief.
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