ChatterBank3 mins ago
Private Parking Prosecution
37 Answers
Hi .. Parked in a private car park in the winter of 2016 at around 22.30. The entrance sign only stated a daily rate of £4.50 so I assumed there was no charge for the night. There were signs inside the car park stating it was 24 hours but I didn't really clock these as I was already under the assumption there was no charge. The company have now issued court proceedings, but have failed to produce any ANPR camera evidence or the contract with the landowner, despite this being requested in my court defence application. Where do I stand? Thank you
Answers
Fighting one since March last year. Go via Martin Lewis money there is a site there. Follow instructions to the letter. Is it P Eye? They are renowned. Copy and paste letters, they obfuscate right left and centre. Bullies. Citizens Advice will also help.
21:48 Mon 26th Mar 2018
I didn't think that a Small Claims Court awarded costs if the claimant was seeking to recover less than £5,000.
Anyway , I stand by my original posting..15.24hrs, 6th March and, if some ABers are seeking to argue that Daytime is a period of 24hours, I ask ...what time factor is involved with Nighttime .
Hans.
Anyway , I stand by my original posting..15.24hrs, 6th March and, if some ABers are seeking to argue that Daytime is a period of 24hours, I ask ...what time factor is involved with Nighttime .
Hans.
Hans- you are partly right on the costs aspect inasmuch as that
if you lose, you won't usually have to pay any other costs- but you usually have to pay the court fees.
From the MSE site:
"f it DOES take you to court, for an amount of this size it's normally (though no guarantees) a small claims action, which means the worst that can usually happen is you're ordered to pay the charge and the company could also reclaim the court fees (which initially can be between £25 and £410 plus more if there's a hearing) but costs aren't awarded.
As regards daytime: the OP referred to "a daily rate of £4.50" rather than a daytime rate.
He also acknowledges that "There were signs inside the car park stating it was 24 hours"
if you lose, you won't usually have to pay any other costs- but you usually have to pay the court fees.
From the MSE site:
"f it DOES take you to court, for an amount of this size it's normally (though no guarantees) a small claims action, which means the worst that can usually happen is you're ordered to pay the charge and the company could also reclaim the court fees (which initially can be between £25 and £410 plus more if there's a hearing) but costs aren't awarded.
As regards daytime: the OP referred to "a daily rate of £4.50" rather than a daytime rate.
He also acknowledges that "There were signs inside the car park stating it was 24 hours"
I won the case. Companies have a right to collect charges BUT they must operate legally and ethically. Please pay parking and don't give these companies the opportunity to issue charges. Below are some points which may assist those in a current dispute or facing court action.
1. Check membership of the International Parking Community (IPC) or the British Parking Association (BPA) Only members of these can legally obtain your details from the DVLA. Download their code of practice/conduct and check for breaches.
2. Debt collection can't be enforced unless a County Court Judgement has been made against you which hasn't been paid. Sending letters from debt collection agencies could be a breach of data protection and a possible contravention of Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006
3. If the car park is private land not owned by the parking company (check via land registry)they must have a contract with the landowner. This contract must identify the Parking company as the 'Creditor' - the legal entity entitled to enforce charges, take you to court and enter into a contract with the driver/keeper within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The Creditor must be named and identified to the driver. Ask for this contract - a Witness statement signed by the parking company is not acceptable and was dismissed in court. In my case the company bringing the court action was not the creditor and had no contract with the landowner - a crucial reason for the case being dismissed.
4. Check for planning permission from the council .. mandatory for ANPR cameras mounted on poles and normally required for signage over 0.3sqm.
And very importantly ADVERTISING CONSENT which is required for signs over 0.3sqm. Displaying signs without this consent is a criminal offence. Therefore their signage could be illegal and any action taken against you illegal. If the signs are illegal you have not legally entered into a contract with the parking company. Both the IPC and the BPA require their members to be compliant with all necessary legislation and to operate within the law. If not these are clear breaches of their codes of conduct/practice. If no advertising consent has been granted report the parking company to the planning authorities. Advertising consent cannot be applied retrospectively.
5. If ANPR cameras are used this must be displayed on signs and also what the cameras will be used for. Ask for ANPR evidence. Photographs must be clear and legible as outlined in both the IPC and BPA codes of practice.
6 The Beavis Court Case was based on the offer of free parking at a retail outlet for a limited period relating to trespass and commercial justification - ie overstaying within a free retail car park prevented others from using the retail outlets thus causing a commercial loss. So the fee had to be applied to deter motorist from overstaying. A parking company charging for parking with no retail outlets do not meet the above criteria. Important to know the difference as this case is frequently used to intimidate drivers to pay.
1. Check membership of the International Parking Community (IPC) or the British Parking Association (BPA) Only members of these can legally obtain your details from the DVLA. Download their code of practice/conduct and check for breaches.
2. Debt collection can't be enforced unless a County Court Judgement has been made against you which hasn't been paid. Sending letters from debt collection agencies could be a breach of data protection and a possible contravention of Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006
3. If the car park is private land not owned by the parking company (check via land registry)they must have a contract with the landowner. This contract must identify the Parking company as the 'Creditor' - the legal entity entitled to enforce charges, take you to court and enter into a contract with the driver/keeper within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The Creditor must be named and identified to the driver. Ask for this contract - a Witness statement signed by the parking company is not acceptable and was dismissed in court. In my case the company bringing the court action was not the creditor and had no contract with the landowner - a crucial reason for the case being dismissed.
4. Check for planning permission from the council .. mandatory for ANPR cameras mounted on poles and normally required for signage over 0.3sqm.
And very importantly ADVERTISING CONSENT which is required for signs over 0.3sqm. Displaying signs without this consent is a criminal offence. Therefore their signage could be illegal and any action taken against you illegal. If the signs are illegal you have not legally entered into a contract with the parking company. Both the IPC and the BPA require their members to be compliant with all necessary legislation and to operate within the law. If not these are clear breaches of their codes of conduct/practice. If no advertising consent has been granted report the parking company to the planning authorities. Advertising consent cannot be applied retrospectively.
5. If ANPR cameras are used this must be displayed on signs and also what the cameras will be used for. Ask for ANPR evidence. Photographs must be clear and legible as outlined in both the IPC and BPA codes of practice.
6 The Beavis Court Case was based on the offer of free parking at a retail outlet for a limited period relating to trespass and commercial justification - ie overstaying within a free retail car park prevented others from using the retail outlets thus causing a commercial loss. So the fee had to be applied to deter motorist from overstaying. A parking company charging for parking with no retail outlets do not meet the above criteria. Important to know the difference as this case is frequently used to intimidate drivers to pay.
Wow. Well done. Seems a lot of work you went to just because you didn't pay the £4.50. I sill don't understand why you thought a £4.50 'daily rate' meant it was free at night, and I suspect that your success was not based on the meaning of daily. Some might fignd it easier just to pay the fee at the time but if anyone finds themselves in your position and have lots of time on their hands to measure signs, check signs have been approved by the council, push for licences etc then they may find your info very useful. There will be some though who don't pay on entry and find that their enquiries don't pay dividends because the companies have complied. Thanks for the update
G'afternoon Maxy......What wonderful news that you have shot down what I think were Parking Cowboys.
You certainly must have done considerable research to win your defence. Did you have to attend Court for a Hearing or were matters concluded by the Court on written submissions.
I think more Abers should be made aware of your success. Consequently, as your thread was started last March and is Not in a topmost spot within the Law section, I hope you don't mind my drawing attention to your latest posting by my starting another thread.
Cheers....Hans.
You certainly must have done considerable research to win your defence. Did you have to attend Court for a Hearing or were matters concluded by the Court on written submissions.
I think more Abers should be made aware of your success. Consequently, as your thread was started last March and is Not in a topmost spot within the Law section, I hope you don't mind my drawing attention to your latest posting by my starting another thread.
Cheers....Hans.
Hi FF .. Unfortunately it wasn't a question of simply paying £4.50 .. The incident occurred late at night .. the car park was extremely dark with poor lighting and signage. A breach of IPC and BPA code of conduct. I always pay parking but it did not feel safe to have to wander around looking for signs. I received a £100 penalty charge and decided to fight this in court. By the time the court date arrived they were asking for £500.00. The case was thrown out by the judge who lambasted their solicitor on lack of lighting and signage, no planning permission and no contract .. in effect .. they were unlawful in bringing any prosecution. For this reason it was extremely important to research this matter and uncover the illegal operation of the company. Unfortunately many others are not aware of the law and are intimidated into paying .. even though legally they might well not have to. Some of these companies are causing immense distress and financial loss .. £150 for example for overstaying their time by 20 minutes. They are also taking a huge number of people to court. So .. I strongly advise everyone to be ultra careful .. double check signs and times, assume every car park is 24 hours unless stated otherwise, allow more time than you think you need and keep plenty of change in the car .. it isn't worth the immense stress and hassle .. don't give them the opportunity to issue a parking charge for £85 plus or issue court proceedings.
Hi Hans .. many thanks for your support. I did have to attend a court hearing .. found it very stressful and intimidating. But it was totally worth it. Their solicitor was chastised for the actions of the company, their illegal prosecution and lack of evidence. Also for their greed in the amount they were asking for. Thank you for your suggestion for opening up another thread .. that would be great. I really wish to help anyone in a similar situation.
Just to clarify the situation between debt collection and bailiffs .. Debt Collectors cannot remove property. They must inform you when they intend to visit and can only write, visit or phone to DISCUSS paying debt. They cannot call you repeatedly or contact you during unsocial hours. If you're contacted deny you owe the debt and send a debt denial letter. A bailiff which is different to a debt collector can only act once a County Court judgement has been issued against you, and then only if you have not paid within the specified time. For anyone receiving the intimidating debt collection letters from parking companies please visit parking cowboys.co.uk. Click onto The industry then click onto debt collection. If you receive any correspondence from Court, or the debt collection agency have referred you to court you must reply to the court .. failure to do so could result in a default judgement against you.
G'morning Maxy......Your latest posting gives some very useful additional information. The Parking Cowboys site you have mentioned is really good and, for ABers who wish to find quickly the page you have mentioned, the following link should activate immediately :-
https:/
Hans.
https:/
Hans.
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